Philando Castile & CPL/CHL & you.

[206thsense]

I have a lot of thoughts... but first, Colion Noir:

TwitLonger — When you talk too much for Twitter

QUOTE:

In The case of officer Jeronimo Yanez, I don't feel he woke up that day wanting to shoot a black person. However, I keep asking myself, would he have done the same thing if Philando were white? As I put on my Monday morning quarterback Jersey, it is my opinion that Philando Castile should be alive today. I believe there was a better way to handle the initial stop. If he suspected Philando was a suspect in a robbery, there were ways to conduct that stop in a way that would have completely avoided the shooting altogether, but Yanez neglected to do so.

Beyond that point, things get a little fuzzy for me. Other than Yanez's testimony, there is nothing I read about the trial or any newly revealed facts to suggest that Philando was going for his gun. However, I don't know what Yanez saw that made him think Philando was going for the gun, I wasn't there, and I only have his words to go by. Sadly, Philando isn't here to tell us other than his last dying statement of, "I wasn't reaching for it".

Personally, I feel because Yanez pulled Philando over under the suspicion that he was a robbery suspect coupled with the presence of a gun, it put Yanez in a heightened state. I feel he lost control of his wits and overreacted. This now brings me to the question of race. Do I think Yanez felt threatened by the fact that Philando was black? It's very possible Yanez was indifferent about Philando's race. However, because of the negative stereotype reinforced in the media about black men and guns, it wouldn't completely surprise me if Yanez felt more threatened by Philando because he was black. This is the same negative stereotype that I've been trying to combat for years now.

Legally, I'm left asking myself, was Yanez failing to conduct a proper felony stop reckless or negligent enough to warrant a Second Degree Manslaughter conviction? As a lawyer, I'm hard pressed to think so. But the young black male in me says hell yes. Admittedly, I don't have all the facts the jury had; I didn't hear the testimony the jury heard. Maybe after hearing his testimony they believe Yanez honestly felt his life was in danger and justifiably so. However, I have to be honest and say, he shouldn't be able to just walk away freely without legal consequence I just don't know what that consequence should be.

Castile's license to carry:

Proof that Philando Castile had a permit to carry from Hennepin County

Will the NRA or other pro-2A organization step up for Castile?
What do you think?

Read More

 

[Stomper]

I think if "stereotypes" need to be broken, then the 1-2% of Black Americans (who comprise 14-15% of the general population) should stop perpetrating over 80% of all homicides committed in the USA... over half of those are against other Black Americans.

 

[206thsense]

I think if "stereotypes" need to be broken, then the 1-2% of Black Americans (who comprise 14-15% of the general population) should stop perpetrating over 80% of all homicides committed in the USA... over half of those are against other Black Americans.

OK.

So who is at fault for Castile's death? Castile, because he happens to share the same race as the bad actors you mentioned? Or Officer Yanez for falling victim to the mental trap of assuming every black guy with a gun is a threat? Honestly curious what your thoughts are.

Oh, and I don't know where you get your 80% of the homicides number is caused by black people.
FactCheck: do black Americans commit more crime?

You are correct that black homicides tend to affect black people more. Just like white people tend to murder other white people. Most criminologists consider the fact that you're more likely to murder people you know the main cause since many communities are still highly racially segregated. (84% of white people are killed by other white people; 93% of black people are killed by other black people)

The actual statistics about black-on-black murders

Let's not sidetrack the thread. Unless you think Officer Yanez's race had something to do with Castile's killing. Even then, I'm guessing Yanez self-identifies as a non-black Latino American / Hispanic.

 

[Goosebrown]

Yanez is absolutely responsible for Castille's death. The only thing that Castile did wrong was not to stop when the cop told him to. A more experienced officer would have controlled the situation. I would have found him guilty of manslaughhter

 

[clearconscience]

He was stupid.

I've been pulled over a couple times carrying a handgun.
When i got pulled over before the LEO got to my window my wallet was out and my license was out, my hands are always up and if it's not raining I hang both out the window with my wallet. I don't usually tell them I have a firearm unless asked but never NEVER reach for anything.

Having said that this LEO (can't blame him) was probably hypersensitive to the recent hate and violence towards LEOs.
I don't blame this LEO.

I blame the BLM movement and the like, and all the media and politicians that have organized and pushed a violent movement against LEOs and anyone who supports them.

 

[206thsense]

He was stupid.

I've been pulled over a couple times carrying a handgun.
When i got pulled over before the LEO got to my window my wallet was out and my license was out, my hands are always up and if it's not raining I hang both out the window with my wallet. I don't usually tell them I have a firearm unless asked but never NEVER reach for anything.

Having said that this LEO (can't blame him) was probably hypersensitive to the recent hate and violence towards LEOs.
I don't blame this LEO.

I blame the BLM movement and the like, and all the media and politicians that have organized and pushed a violent movement against LEOs and anyone who supports them.

So BLM killed this guy? I dunno, clearconscience... sounds like a stretch there. I might also disagree with their tactics, but blaming BLM for Castile's death is like saying all gun owners are to blame for yahoos walking around grocery stores open carrying their SKS rifles and cheap AR15s.

Thank you for sharing about your experience being pulled over, though. Even though you mentioned that every time you have your wallet ready, what if you're pulled over and your wallet/permit is in your pocket?

What if the officer gives you a conflicting instruction (because he's nervous) that he wants you to keep your hands where he can see them AND he wants you to get your identification?

The couple of times I've been pulled over, I don't even hold my wallet up because it's dark grey and a bifold (big). I worry it looks like a gun, so I pull out my WHOLE DRIVERS LICENSE + my carry permit and hold it in my left hand. I always have my windows on both sides completely rolled down.

I've had perfectly safe and polite conversations with cops... I've also had my share of deeply troubling experiences as well.

 

[Stomper]

I should have specified that I was referring to Colion Noir's comments and articulated feelings. (FWIW, I'm subbed to his YT channel BTW)

I replied off the top of my (flat) head and was wrong about the 80%... it's 50% of all homicides. That's still an amazingly high disproportion percentage wise (albeit statistically factual), which will naturally translate to an LEO (who undoubtedly keeps abreast of current events)
into an amplified situation of affecting a TS on someone who fits the discription of an armed robber.

I won't speculate on the case, don't know any of the factual evidence or testimony. Regardless, it surely was an unfortunate turn of events. I contend it's more a matter of a broken sub-culture than it is skin pigmentation.

 

[MikeE]

This is from the National Review - not a liberal journal:
The Philando Castile Verdict Was a Miscarriage of Justice

 

[Sgt Nambu]

I just have this to say.

If I'm pulled over I'm going to do EXACTLY what the officer directs!
Nothing more, nothing less. Everything will come out at the end. If the officer is perpetrating a violation of my civil rights....it will come out in the end! That's what I have a freakin lawyer for!
Now, what I'm not going do is go all, over excited, childlike, enraged or what ever else these people who get themselves shot do!
There! I said it! Yes, I think he got himself shot! Big news Philando, he's not interested in your piece of paper just now! He's only interested in getting himself SAFE!
There are individuals and groups of folks who just take the emotional path! It's sad, for them, but they want their outcome NOW! And, so excited, they aren't even hearing the other people involved. Big recipe for disaster!

The other half of this unfortunate equation is Officer Yanez! His failure to execute a proper felony stop is a critical component of Mr Castile losing his life! IMHO, the act of properly performing the stop would have protected Officer Yanez, as well as being a calming influence on him. That is, doing the stop, by the book, would have tended to keep the adrenaline pump set a notch lower.
I don't know. This type of tragedy happens day in and day out! The emotional shoot or get shot, and then the stupid blame the weapon and howl for gun control! Curses!!!

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Officer Jeronimo Yanez gave two conflicting orders which Philando Castile followed and was killed for. Bad shoot.

 

[cigars]

We weren't there when P.C. was shot. We weren't on the jury panel either. We only had the info that the media fed us. The jury had the facts of the matter. I know that will not be good enough for some out there. Riots will probably ensue now because the facts are not what the rioter crowd wanted to hear.

 

[Stomper]

This is from the National Review - not a liberal journal:
The Philando Castile Verdict Was a Miscarriage of Justice

I UTTERLY don't care about media editorials, regardless of red or blue tinted lenses. I'm not saying it was a good shoot, nor am I saying the victim is at fault for his own demise. You CAN (and should) lay the blame on the prosecution for not proving their case beyond a preponderance of doubt that resulted in the verdict received.

 

[206thsense]

This is from the National Review - not a liberal journal:
The Philando Castile Verdict Was a Miscarriage of Justice

This is good editorial if nothing else that it poses a transcript / play-by-play of what happened.

Most damning evidence to me: another officer was present and neither drew his firearm nor fired. So what did the second officer see that Officer Yanez didn't?

 

[206thsense]

I should have specified that I was referring to Colion Noir's comments and articulated feelings. (FWIW, I'm subbed to his YT channel BTW)

I replied of the top of my (flat) head and was wrong about the 80%... it's 50% of all homicides. That's still an amazingly high disproportion percentage wise (albeit statistically factual), which will naturally translate to an LEO (who undoubtedly keeps abreast of current events)
into an amplified situation of affecting a TS on someone who fits the discription of an armed robber.

I won't speculate on the case, don't know any of the factual evidence or testimony. Regardless, it surely was an unfortunate turn of events. I contend it's more a matter of a broken sub-culture than it is skin pigmentation.

Fair assessment, and valid viewpoint... even if I disagree about "broken sub-culture" as a comment. On some level, we're all broken and imperfect people.

Whatever mistakes Castile made, he unfortunately paid with his life. Is there fair?
Whatever mistakes Officer Yanez made... well, he gets to walk away alive and free.

For some reason, this case of licensed concealed carrier being shot by the police reminds of the Erik Scott case - a man killed while shopping at Costco. A Costco claimed Scott was acting aggressive (family disputes this). Police say Scott drew a gun on them - multiple witnesses say that Scott never pulled his gun and the gun was found still holstered on his body. Scott was a honorably discharged veteran and white. Almost all Costco have video surveillance, yet video of Scott's death mysteriously... vanished.

The Erik Scott Case, Update 23: Video That Won't Disappear
Erik Scott's family files lawsuit against Costco in shooting death

 

[Stomper]

What I mean by "sub-culture" is the whole "gangsta" lifestyle, emulation, and glorification most often "stereotypically" associated with said demographic. You should watch some of Tommy Sotomayor's (a black American) videos on his YT channel that spells out a serious root cause of the increasingly animalistic results we keep seeing on "the media".

That's not saying all other sub-cultures and races (BTW- I only claim one race... Human) don't have their issues, but it appears to be an institution within that sub-culture.

But we digress.

 

[No_Regerts]

Something to think about is that a officer involved shooting is judged based on the totality of the circumstances known at the time the pin hits primer. Nothing identified after that point matters. The jury must decide if the officer's actions were reasonable given the totality of the circumstances when the hammer drops.

 

[Alexx1401]

Since it's hard to believe anything the "press" comes out with I have not paid a lot of attention to the stories here. I do agree BLM has caused the black community a LOT of harm. Many neighborhoods are at the mercy of gangs since Cops don't want to get involved there.
Now as for this. Have not been stopped in a long time. Did have a break down not long ago. when an LEO approaches me I do just as told. If you "feel" the Cop in in the wrong the side of the road is NOT the place to plead this case. Last time I was broke down on freeway shoulder. Had already called AAA. I was in the passenger seat away from traffic. Trooper pulls behind me. I already had wallet on dash expecting this. I was armed. She gets out, I get out. She was trying to (I think) tell me to stay in car, but was smiling and friendly. I could not hear anything she said do to rush hour traffic. I put my hand to ear to signal I could not hear and kept my hands in PLAIN SIGHT. She came up, asked what, was told AAA on the way. She said she had seen me and just wanted to check. Never asked for ID, I am sure she had already run tags from her car. She thanked me, I thanked her, she left. Now, if some Cop gets nasty I would keep my yap shut. I would keep my hands in plain sight. If I get a gun drawn on me, and or multiple conflicting commands I would freeze. I would keep my hands in plain sight, might tell them you're giving conflicting commands, and wait. If they put hands on me I would not resist. The side of the road in not the place to start an argument with an LEO. This is what courts are for AFTER.

 

[Kruel J]

It was a dirty shoot. And officer Yanez got off clean. Just like the Cosby trial, justice was NOT served.

 

[No_Regerts]

It was a dirty shoot. And officer Yanez got off clean. Just like the Cosby trial, justice was NOT served.

I'd say maybe a bad shoot, but not dirty. He wasn't killing off a loose end after a little taxation.

 

[Kruel J]

I'd say maybe a bad shoot, but not dirty. He wasn't killing off a loose end after a little taxation.

Point taken. To me if it's not a clean shoot, it's dirty.