Philando Castile & CPL/CHL & you.

[bbbass]

The fact is that black people make the news more and are usually in areas with higher amounts of crime. Yes, proportionally there are more black people committing crimes since they are the ones prevalent in the crime-ridden black neighborhoods. Sadly, law-abiding citizens are always victims of the criminal elements around them. Many honest and young black men suffer from the criminality of black gangs and criminal element more than the rest of us.

Who'd a thunk it? ... Black crime in crime-ridden black neighborhoods.

 

[No_Regerts]

That situation went from 0-200mph in less than a blink... IMO a blink or two were definately in order. Geronimo is NOT cop material.

In hindsight, or if someone gave me a loose training scenario to complete a table top exercise, I would have suggested getting some people there and calling the guy out of the car and having him backwalk to me. That keeps things from getting out of hand because someone planning to do bad things will often think twice when there are a lot more obstacles to overcome.

If you're wrong, you apologize for the inconvenience and try to explain why you went there. Everyone is alive, even if they are upset over it. I'm often surprised how positive of a response I've gotten when something like this happens and you end up removing the cuffs. I haven't had someone file a complaint yet in scenarios like this.

 

[mountainman503]

Does anyone feel that the NRA should stand up for Philando Castile?

 

[4Freedom]

Does anyone feel that the NRA should stand up for Philando Castile?

Absolutely. What happened to Philando Castile could have happened to any of us. The fact this has turned into a race issue is what sucks about the whole thing. A Mexican cop shoots a black man and the media already spins it as a "White Mexican" who is not even white at all, just plain Hispanic male.

It would have been so much better had this became a purely 2nd Amendment issue, where a law-abiding gun owner was shot dead for merely trying to comply with police orders.

To be honest, this unstable and poorly trained police officer could have just as easily killed your or me. His skin color I even doubt would have made a difference. Had it been a white guy who fitted the robbery description and officer Yanez stopped him, he probably would have been just as jumpy and shot him all the same. The fact that a law-abiding black citizen was killed rather than a white one is what made this whole case controversial and news worthy. In fact, many white people, including innocent white people are killed by law enforcement and you will never read about it any well recognized news source.

 

[RicInOR]

What scares me most, is that the standards for becoming an officer are going down. Departments are lowering standards.



Of course, even if I was a younger man, you could not get me to be a cop today.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

What scares me most, is that the standards for becoming an officer are going down. Departments are lowering standards.



Of course, even if I was a younger man, you could not get me to be a cop today.

This is why I carry license and registration in my cell phone case on the dash. If pulled over and asked I can get my required docs out of an in sight, harmless object. This case motivated that change for me. I don't need to go close to my gun or guns.

 

[mountainman503]

I feel officer Yanez is 99% at fault. This man was legally exercising his 2A rights and was killed by an unprofessional cop. Why won't the NRA address this?

 

[mountainman503]

The ONLY thing they have on Philando was he didn't stop moving his hands within one second of the officer's orders.

 

[Alexx1401]

Point taken. To me if it's not a clean shoot, it's dirty.

Unless there is some other video of this I still can't tell. I watched the dash cam several times. I keep hearing the LEO telling him stop don't reach for it before shooting. I can't see what he is doing. Is he still reaching for anything? Are his hands moving at all? If so I would have to ask why? If it was me at that point my hands would have been up and not moving at all. As long as a gun was pointed at me my hands would have stayed that way NO MATTER WHAT was said to me. Now if he was even reaching for a cold drink I do not feel sorry for him at all. If his hands were in plain sight and he was not moving them, yes, Cop got away with Murder.
I would say this is another argument for body cam's. I have long said that if I was doing this kind of work again now I would buy my own if the department would not give me one.

 

[awshoot]

The couple of times I've been pulled over, I don't even hold my wallet up because it's dark grey and a bifold (big). I worry it looks like a gun, so I pull out my WHOLE DRIVERS LICENSE + my carry permit and hold it in my left hand. I always have my windows on both sides completely rolled down.

Like this kid:

After the cop shoots him for holding a wallet he yells at him "don't move" etc. What a prick.

 

[Alexx1401]

Like this kid:

After the cop shoots him for holding a wallet he yells at him "don't move" etc. What a prick.

Couple things here. For one it has zero to do with the shooting discussed here. So I take it the only point is you want to show how much Cops are horrible people. Great. I'm sure you would love the world we would have without them in it.
As for this shoot it was a real tragedy that no doubt the Cop wishes he could have a do over on. If he is even still a Cop. Now as for this incident. If you don't want to have this happen to you don't do what this driver did. When a Cop pulls up like that stay in the car unless its on fire. Roll the window down. Keep your hands on the wheel. Since you had plenty of time to sit there could not hurt to have the wallet and any other info needed on the dash. The way the guy was struggling out of the car with something in his hand, at night, was begging for a mistake. For several years now Cops have become a "favorite target" of many kooks egged on by the liberals and the press. It's a job I would not want these days. One nice thing about this shoot is it is clearly seen. Others like the one that was being discussed here were not as far as I know. I have still only seen the one video where we can see nothing of what is going on in the car.

 

[billdeserthills]

I've been pulled over a few times since I got my first CCW permit, and the mistake I noticed is in talking about the fact that you are armed. If the officer mentions the word CCW in my state, I am obliged to produce my permit-- however I notice that in the instances when I have simply volunteered that I have a ccw permit & a gun at a police stop, it seems to make cops uneasy. I have quit introducing the topic and I believe that had the dead guy simply stfu he would still be alive today

Unfortunately many people turn the cops upon themselves by their uncontrolled mouth

Personally I don't think the dead man did anything wrong enough to be executed for, but he's dead just the same. Don't volunteer information to the police, just stfu-- if the man wants something from you, he'll let you know

 

[Alexx1401]

I've been pulled over a few times since I got my first CCW permit, and the mistake I noticed is in talking about the fact that you are armed. If the officer mentions the word CCW in my state, I am obliged to produce my permit-- however I notice that in the instances when I have simply volunteered that I have a ccw permit & a gun at a police stop, it seems to make cops uneasy. I have quit introducing the topic and I believe that had the dead guy simply stfu he would still be alive today

Unfortunately many people turn the cops upon themselves by their uncontrolled mouth

Personally I don't think the dead man did anything wrong enough to be executed for, but he's dead just the same. Don't volunteer information to the police, just stfu-- if the man wants something from you, he'll let you know

Some states "I hear say" tell you that you have to let them know. If this is not the case in the state you're in probably best to just not mention "gun". I do keep my CPL with my license and if stopped would hand over both then follow whatever instructions are given. What I keep coming back to is watching the video. The LEO keeps saying don't reach for it. Since the video does not show what the LEO is seeing I can't make a judgment of what I would do. If his hands are still moving why? Especially after the LEO's pulls a gun out. If at that point he is still reaching for anything, why? When a gun is pointed at you it's long past time to be moving your hands at all.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

I definitely do not mention that I am heeled! I, too, think it's a possible big mistake! If he ran my plates, he knows I have a CHL.
I just keep my hands visible and a cheerful aspect on my grill, and wait for instructions!

 

[206thsense]

This is a looooooooong listen, but there's a lot of stuff in this podcast. 22 minute podcast.

What To Make Of Philando Castile's Death, One Year Later

Castile was previously stopped 46 times by the police. Read that again FORTY-SIX times. He survived all those other encounters... yet happens to die in this one?

The difference should be obvious to anyone.
The 46 other times with those other police officers didn't end in violence.
Castile was neither arrested nor detained, or he would have lost his conceal carry permit.
The difference was and is Officer Yanez's panic and actions.

 

[etrain16]

I definitely do not mention that I am heeled! I, too, think it's a possible big mistake! If he ran my plates, he knows I have a CHL.
I just keep my hands visible and a cheerful aspect on my grill, and wait for instructions!

I learned, almost 25 years ago now, to put both hands on the steering wheel after rolling the window down just enough to talk through. I don't move my hands until the officer tells me to, and I tell them where I'm reaching so there is no misunderstanding. Seems like the best way to proceed in a stop.

Both made mistakes - Castile should have planted his hands on the wheel and not moved. But I put most of this on the overly-excited officer - he blew it in this case and an innocent man is dead.

And yes, I think the NRA should be on this - CHL holders shouldn't be subjected to crap like this, regardless of color.

 

[4Freedom]

The whole concept of law abiding citizens having to inform a police officer they have a firearm is just ludicrous, in my opinion. Must Inform laws are unconstitutional and they do absolutely no good, whatsoever. Think about it, what hardened cop-killing criminal is going to suddenly stop his malevolent intentions because all the sudden the state has a law saying he must inform the officer he is carrying a firearm? Laws like this are just made to punish law-abiding citizens and make them subjugated to the authorities. It absolutely does nothing to protect the lives of the police or the citizens. In fact, many people falsely believe in many states they can be put in prison for not notifying a police officer they are carrying. However, on the other hand, some states will actually put you in jail. And, I have heard in some states, even without a Must Inform law, that people have been arrested and prosecuted for not notifying an officer they had a weapon, whether it was because the officer thought they asked or a misunderstanding of the law from the authorities. Some states actually have very contradictory laws about notifying law enforcement about firearms on traffic stops.

I am for the total dissolution of all "Must Inform" laws as they have only caused more deaths of innocent people than lives they have saved. In fact, I would also think that our 2nd Amendment rights should protect us from even having to reveal the fact we have a firearm. My opinion is that unless a person is being arrested a law-abiding citizen should have no reason to ever have to disclose they have a firearm in the vehicle. I actually believe a police officer should be prosecuted or fined for violation of civil liberties if he forces a person who is not being detained or arrested to reveal whether they are carrying a legal firearm with them. Now, if they are looking for stolen firearms, they can say "Is there any illegal firearms in the car?". Once again, what criminal who isn't completely mentally incapacitated would reveal that information either.

All I have to say is that criminals who want to kill cops are 99.9% of time not going to tell the cop they have a gun on them. So, what good are these stupid police state laws doing for us? More innocent people are being killed because of them. Law abiding citizens should be told under no case to tell a police officer they have a gun unless they are being arrested. At that point, then everything should be disclosed. Of course if a person is being arrested, the officer should assume the person could be potentially armed and dangerous anyway.

Must Inform laws for the most part turn law-abiding citizens into criminals and even have resulted in the deaths of several innocent people.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Philando's mother reached a 3 million dollar settlement to be paid by the city's insurance company. I am not sure if his girlfriend or her daughter will receive any of the money.

Philando Castile family reaches $3M settlement in death

 

[awshoot]

Couple things here. For one it has zero to do with the shooting discussed here. So I take it the only point is you want to show how much Cops are horrible people. Great. I'm sure you would love the world we would have without them in it.

The context was quoted. A different poster said he worried a cop would mistake his wallet for a gun. In the context of the discussion, the video makes perfect sense.

As for this shoot it was a real tragedy that no doubt the Cop wishes he could have a do over on. If he is even still a Cop. Now as for this incident. If you don't want to have this happen to you don't do what this driver did.

Wrong lesson. Yes, I get that it is the smart thing to do and if I lived in N. Korea I would surely bow down to any authority put in front of me without question, but the problem we seem to have in America right now is a militarized police force which seems trained mostly in shooting rather than defusing situations, although to be fair, there was nothing to defuse here, just "hands up" followed by a shooting a fraction of second later -- the kid's nervous system literally didn't have enough time respond to the command.

Secondly, if approaching a car is so dangerous for cops, then stop doing it. How about sit in the cruiser or stand behind a reinforced door and use the loudspeaker to instruct everyone to exit the vehicle and how to do it? Screaming at people who are confused however, just generates confusion and dead bodies. One thing is darn certain, the standard of care required of people with Concealed Carry licenses is way higher than that apparently required of police.

When a Cop pulls up like that stay in the car unless its on fire. Roll the window down. Keep your hands on the wheel. Since you had plenty of time to sit there could not hurt to have the wallet and any other info needed on the dash. The way the guy was struggling out of the car with something in his hand, at night, was begging for a mistake.

It is disturbing to me that in the Land of the Free, we have to make sure teenagers know to fear the trigger happy cop. I think of that time when I was 16 and "parking" with my girlfriend when a cop knocked on the window and asked for my license and registration. When I reached for the glove box he calmly said I should do it slowly. That was way back in the 80s though and In these times, I'd likely just get shot because I didn't know the rundown. Of course, the PR nightmare of PSAs instructing everyone to live in terror of jittery cops will probably prevent those lessons from being taught to kids, like the one rolling on the ground in agony in that video while our Peace Officer screams "hands up".

 

[Alexx1401]

The context was quoted. A different poster said he worried a cop would mistake his wallet for a gun. In the context of the discussion, the video makes perfect sense.



Wrong lesson. Yes, I get that it is the smart thing to do and if I lived in N. Korea I would surely bow down to any authority put in front of me without question, but the problem we seem to have in America right now is a militarized police force which seems trained mostly in shooting rather than defusing situations, although to be fair, there was nothing to defuse here, just "hands up" followed by a shooting a fraction of second later -- the kid's nervous system literally didn't have enough time respond to the command.

Secondly, if approaching a car is so dangerous for cops, then stop doing it. How about sit in the cruiser or stand behind a reinforced door and use the loudspeaker to instruct everyone to exit the vehicle and how to do it? Screaming at people who are confused however, just generates confusion and dead bodies. One thing is darn certain, the standard of care required of people with Concealed Carry licenses is way higher than that apparently required of police.



It is disturbing to me that in the Land of the Free, we have to make sure teenagers know to fear the trigger happy cop. I think of that time when I was 16 and "parking" with my girlfriend when a cop knocked on the window and asked for my license and registration. When I reached for the glove box he calmly said I should do it slowly. That was way back in the 80s though and In these times, I'd likely just get shot because I didn't know the rundown. Of course, the PR nightmare of PSAs instructing everyone to live in terror of jittery cops will probably prevent those lessons from being taught to kids, like the one rolling on the ground in agony in that video while our Peace Officer screams "hands up".

I know this is a waste of time but others may get something from it. You "feel" you live in some new world here like NK. You "feel" Cops are running around looking to shoot people. This is total liberal BS. It's spread by the "we hate cops crowd. Only people living in a cave don't know of the open war the people who use the loaded terms you just used here have brought on Cops. Telling everyone who will listen to them lines like you used here. Trigger happy cops, militarized police force, PSAs instructing everyone to live in terror of jittery cops. Great buzz lines. Yes it's WAYYYY to hard to tell people when a Cop is talking to you keep your hands where he can see them. When he reaches for a gun stop moving your hands. After all "we all know" we have all these killer cops roaming around wanting to shoot people for no reason. Keep telling yourself that. The shooting of the guy climbing out with his wallet which had nothing to do with the thread here was totally preventable. Why let that get in the way with a good story about how we have roaming gangs of militarized police roaming around hunting people so we can live in NK.