ORS 166.412 and OSP delays

[VW_Factor]

166.412 section 3 (c) If the department fails to provide a unique approval number to a gun dealer or to notify the gun dealer that the purchaser is disqualified under paragraph (a) of this subsection before the close of the gun dealer’s next business day following the request by the dealer for a criminal history record check, the dealer may deliver the handgun to the purchaser.

Why would the OSP even delay a background check if they know that lawfully a dealer can transfer the weapon anyway?

Why do a majority of the dealers not follow the state law as written and just bow to the will of the OSP?

I ask, as my buddy was told straight out by the challenge line that he'll have to wait a full 35 days.

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[TonsOfOregonBrass]

We don't just give them to the individuals because we are the ones who would be out the money if the gun is denied. We would get a used gun back, and rightfully need to refund the money to the person less the $10 background....... But the number one reason i do not give it after the 72 hours the the fed's require is because i would be out of business if I did give the gun over and it was used in a crime like murder the civil lawsuit would put me out of business. Even if i won in court, the lawyer fees would be the end of the store. I can pretty much guarantee most stores would be put out of business from this.

 

[sprice37]

I this is truly verbatim then see highlighted text.

166.412 section 3 (c) If the department fails to provide a unique approval number to a gun dealer or to notify the gun dealer that the purchaser is disqualified under paragraph (a) of this subsection before the close of the gun dealer's next business day following the request by the dealer for a criminal history record check, the dealer may deliver the handgun to the purchaser.

 

[VW_Factor]

We don't just give them to the individuals because we are the ones who would be out the money if the gun is denied. We would get a used gun back, and rightfully need to refund the money to the person less the $10 background....... But the number one reason i do not give it after the 72 hours the the fed's require is because i would be out of business if I did give the gun over and it was used in a crime like murder the civil lawsuit would put me out of business. Even if i won in court, the lawyer fees would be the end of the store. I can pretty much guarantee most stores would be put out of business from this.

This is a good response. However, why the worry of being sued for following State Law? In the good ol' US of A, anyone can sue anyone else for anything.. Are you that confident that it would stand up in court, or you fear the lawyer costs most of all?

In reality I don't think it would end up being a huge problem. However, sounds like yourself may be a good position to have a better view of things. How many actual denials do you actually come across throughout a month or even year?

Edit : Or even a denial after a delay besides the straight out denial?

 

[deen_ad]

I this is truly verbatim then see highlighted text.

166.412 section 3 (c) If the department fails to provide a unique approval number to a gun dealer or to notify the gun dealer that the purchaser is disqualified under paragraph (a) of this subsection before the close of the gun dealer's next business day following the request by the dealer for a criminal history record check, the dealer may deliver the handgun to the purchaser.

The operative word is "may". So even if legal they still don't have to do it. And TonsOfOregonBrass spells out the reasons pretty well.

 

[TonsOfOregonBrass]

This is a good response. However, why the worry of being sued for following State Law? In the good ol' US of A, anyone can sue anyone else for anything.. Are you that confident that it would stand up in court, or you fear the lawyer costs most of all?

This is true, but opening yourself up to added risk is not something that people tend to want to do. The main issue with the gun industry is it is solely at the ATF's will. One of the reasons dealers went along with "fast and furious". You dont want to bite the hand that feeds you, or allows you to be fed.

In reality I don't think it would end up being a huge problem. However, sounds like yourself may be a good position to have a better view of things. How many actual denials do you actually come across throughout a month or even year?

Edit : Or even a denial after a delay besides the straight out denial?

I personally get around 1 or 2 a month that are denied. so their is no way to know which one will and will not be. I get around 10 - 13 delays a month also. so the odds on the delays to denials is not in my favor for handing guns out.

 

[SnackCracker]

I personally get around 1 or 2 a month that are denied. so their is no way to know which one will and will not be. I get around 10 - 13 delays a month also. so the odds on the delays to denials is not in my favor for handing guns out.

I guess a better question to ask you is: Of the 10-13 delays per month, how many of those turn out to be "Denied"?

I have been "delayed" a few times over the years and it is SO frustrating! Especially since I have a valid CHL! In spite of having a CHL the dealers have never allowed me to take possession until they get an approval from OSP.
I just call OSP and hound them until they approve it. If you wait it out "patiently, it can be weeks! Once I call them to question the "delay", it's usually only about an hour until they notify the dealer and approve it. But that still costs me another trip and time to go pick up what should have never been delayed in the first place.

 

[TonsOfOregonBrass]

I guess a better question to ask you is: Of the 10-13 delays per month, how many of those turn out to be "Denied"?

I have been "delayed" a few times over the years and it is SO frustrating! Especially since I have a valid CHL! In spite of having a CHL the dealers have never allowed me to take possession until they get an approval from OSP.
I just call OSP and hound them until they approve it. If you wait it out "patiently, it can be weeks! Once I call them to question the "delay", it's usually only about an hour until they notify the dealer and approve it. But that still costs me another trip and time to go pick up what should have never been delayed in the first place.

Although it is not as frustrating for me. I can see where you are coming from and wish that i could ignore it with out having to worry about the repercussions. Unfortunately as a dealer i do not know everyone who walks through the door. And even though you have a CHL, Clackamas county was handing them out without even doing a check on the person. So i cannot even count that as a sure sign of you being a good person. The simple fact is no one not even my dad if he was delayed is worth losing my business and only source of income......

I do not want to become a member of the I deserve to be given everything class in this country going to Occupy Wall Street Marches,and paying for everything with my Oregon Trail Food Card. I have worked very hard, in fact i work a minimum of 78 hours per week, 7 days a week, and have only had 2 days off in the last year. That much work and effort is not worth risking for someone who just walked off the street.

 

[VW_Factor]

This is true, but opening yourself up to added risk is not something that people tend to want to do. The main issue with the gun industry is it is solely at the ATF's will. One of the reasons dealers went along with "fast and furious". You dont want to bite the hand that feeds you, or allows you to be fed.



I personally get around 1 or 2 a month that are denied. so their is no way to know which one will and will not be. I get around 10 - 13 delays a month also. so the odds on the delays to denials is not in my favor for handing guns out.

I had no idea the ratio was that bad. Thanks for the insight.

Have you ever had anyone push the issue with you? Or asked for their money back to take business elsewhere because of it?

 

[TonsOfOregonBrass]

I had no idea the ratio was that bad. Thanks for the insight.

Have you ever had anyone push the issue with you? Or asked for their money back to take business elsewhere because of it?

Absolutely, Most people are pretty understandable. Usually the only people who get delayed are people who have been arrested. So they generally understand their are more hoops to jump through. But there are definitely those that just want their money back and i give it to them. They might take their business elsewhere, but they will get the same result.

I only had one person really push me to give them the gun after three days. He eventually canceled the transaction and got his money back. He was a jerk about it, but i can understand why. it would be frustrating and annoying to have to wait for something you paid for. But usually once you explain that once the process is done, they should not get delayed again.

 

[PhotogUSA3]

But usually once you explain that once the process is done, they should not get delayed again.

Well I can't let this statement stand as it is.
I personally do get delayed 24 hours each and every time I purchase a firearm in Oregon. Never had an arrest of any sort. I just happen to be a Permanent Resident, so each time (even when I bought 2 within a week once) I get a 24 hour delay. What is interesting though is that it is almost exactly 24 hours for the clearance to come through.
I do not quite understand how checking my immigration status takes a full day for OSP. I just can't wait to get my citizenship... just waiting on some paperwork for that.
If any of the FFLs here has any suggestions please let me know... Thanks!

 

[TonsOfOregonBrass]

Well I can't let this statement stand as it is.
I personally do get delayed 24 hours each and every time I purchase a firearm in Oregon. Never had an arrest of any sort. I just happen to be a Permanent Resident, so each time (even when I bought 2 within a week once) I get a 24 hour delay. What is interesting though is that it is almost exactly 24 hours for the clearance to come through.
I do not quite understand how checking my immigration status takes a full day for OSP. I just can't wait to get my citizenship... just waiting on some paperwork for that.
If any of the FFLs here has any suggestions please let me know... Thanks!

There is nothing that can be done about that. Any and all permanent resident get delayed. Sometimes it is 20 minutes, sometimes it's an hour, sometimes a full 24. Once you get your citizenship then you will not have to worry about it any more. my statement was directed at full citizens. I tell all permanent residents up front they will be delayed for 24 hours. That way there is no surprise

 

[pietro beretta]

Well when I was delayed, The Gun Broker had no problem delivering the gun to me after the 3rd day; after the close of the 2nd day and OSP did not have a response.

When I went to pick the firearm up I was told something to the affect of, we still haven't received a proceed and if it comes back denied OSP will be knocking at your front door; I just nodded -- I know I am not a prohibited person, still have no idea how long it took them to get a proceed.

If you can get sued for following state and federal law; If I were the business getting sued I would file a suit against the state and federal government; If I am liable for following state law, then the state should be liable as well.

From what I was told, the person who signed their name on the dotted line is the person ultimately responsible, but then again it wasn't a lawyer but a LGS who said this to me.

(Note: If the LGS didn't deliver the firearm untill they received a proceed, I would call 3 times a day until the firearm was delivered to me. That's just the way I am, if it took 30 days, 60 days, they would have received 90 - 180 calls from me.)