On forest fires

[ATCclears]

I've read several articles in the past two years that essentially say we are now dealing with unintended consequences related to forest fires:

• Mother Nature historically had forest fires.
• We have become good at fire suppression.
• "Fuel" builds up in the forests due to fire suppression, and a lack of ability/$ to clear out the fuel.
• People are building in remote or sparse places and we want to protect them.

This article is humorous since it mentions "cue the outrage mob".
Rantz: Progressives attack scientist for telling truth about smoky Washington

Those with a home in a remote or sparse location might ask themselves "hmmm, is there a buildup of fuel near me?...". The unintended consequences are not going to get better in the years ahead.

Read More

 

[Joe13]

Yup we keep messing with nature and wonder why we have issues.

 

[Camelfilter]

Plus the complete change of true forestry management...

 

[Joe13]

If I lived out where I'd like to be, I would have 5 acres in every direction free of anything that would burn.

Might take awhile to clear it but I'd not loose my house and shop to some dumb forest fire.

 

[P7M13]

Heck, it used to be smoky every year because of the field and slash burning. They should try moving to Shanghai or Bejing, where the air looks like that on a daily basis.

 

[11Charlie]

If I had my choice I would live right in the middle of 20 acres with 200 yds cleared around the house and shop. One access road in and out and claymore mines on trip wires in the tree line. The only open spot besides that would be the Range for long distance shots.

 

[Ura-Ki]

One of the biggest problems, the yearly funds that are far marked for properly maintaining the forests are instead spent on political pet projects, and the job gets shuffled off for "Next Year" only next year never happens! Then you have in fighting between land owners, state and fed agencies over who is responsable for doing it. Then we have the liberal leaders who believe/follow false science in forest management because it supports leaving it alone. Then the tree huggers get involved and cry foul every time some one decided to cut a tree!
Finally, the State of Cali is taking all the money from other States in order to fight what could have been prevented! Orovill dam any one! Ignore the problem as long as you can, use the cheapest contractors possable, do it as half azzed and quick as possable and pass the buck/blame when it all goes to hell! Cali. Is broke, and the other States with fires have lost a large chunk of fighting capabilities because fits all being sent to Cali. I always got the frantic phone calls, when can I bring the company in and fight the fires, always the same answer, Colorado comes first, then who ever calls next! Cali was always the next call and we would fight 2,3,4 more after and not Or. Or Wa. Or other States that needed. Most privately owned fire companies do the exact same thing, follow the money on a sure bet to Cali. Vs waiting for a fire that may not happen, or the call that dosnt come!

 

[OldTengu]

My mother lives in an area of the gorge above crown point that has been evacuated 3 times in the 32 years I've been alive.

I spend about a month every year clearing brush on her 9 acre plot, and luckily, so far the fires have not made it close enough to be a serious danger. But it is a worry. If you were to use Google maps to look at her home, you would see very dense forest surrounding it, which is very dry this time of year.

I have had a discussion similar to this recently, and it has been, and will likely continue to be, met with derision from people unfamiliar with forest fires. I contend that last year's fires in the gorge, while started by a human semi-intentionally, likely would have happened to some degree or another anyhow due to the level of unmanaged ground cover and brush. And I also would contend that something as benign as a lightning strike or tailpipe drag could have just as easily been the cause, given the amount of fuel.

Not defending the kid. I would like to to have had him out there fighting the fires, then spending at least the rest of his youthful life in jail, if not the entirety of his life. But a good point to consider.

 

[Brutus57]

Chuck DeVore wrote an interesting article for Forbes recently on Cali wildfires. Don't have link right now but it is a good read. Just google him, Cali wildfires and Forbes.

Brutus Out

 

[CountryGent]

Plus the complete change of true forestry management...

^ This has a lot to do with it. I've noticed that is, largely, being ignored as part of the conversation.

If I had my choice I would live right in the middle of 20 acres with 200 yds cleared around the house and shop. One access road in and out and claymore mines on trip wires in the tree line. The only open spot besides that would be the Range for long distance shots.

^. I like the way this gentleman thinks.

 

[The Heretic]

I own and live on 20 acres on a small "mountain" at about 900' elevation.

Lately there has been some logging going on up here. Last year about 80 acres were logged about a mile or two away along the highway. In the friggin middle of June either the loggers or land owners burned the slash piles and after several days the piles seemed to have gone out, and no one was watching them. Any person with an iota of experience burning slash piles knows what happened next; the wind picked up and the embers that were still under ground caught fire and it was off to the races.

Fortunately the Laurel FD was Johnny on the spot and they put it out, but had the wind blown the other way, at least several houses would have probably burned to the ground and it might have reached my property. Fire insurance only covers buildings and landscaping, not forests and I would have lost more than just my house and shop - the trees are worth more than the house.

Anyway, about 4 years ago I had the 5 acre area around the house thinned. Any tree that was closer than 20' to another tree was I marked for falling. Any tree that was smaller than the larger trees, I marked for falling. Most of the brush trees (alder, oak, maple) were removed - except for the large ones. It took 3 years, but I removed most of the remaining logs and debris left behind - still got several piles left to cut up.

The larger older trees are much less susceptible to fire. Think of a tree as a large column of water - the larger it is, the less susceptible to catching fire it is. Also, trees farther apart are less likely to catch fire. The downside is that once the sun can get thru the upper story, then more underbrush grows - so it is a balancing act and I have to keep the underbrush cut back - but still it is better than what it was before.

This year I had the western 9-10 acres clear cut. A lot of neighbor's acreage has been clear cut too. If a fire came thru there this year or next, that clear cut would probably stop a fire. After a couple of years there will be grasses/etc. there and a fire would race thru that during this time of the year, but it would not burn as hot as a forest fire, it would mostly be a grass fire. In a few years, if I don't keep the maple and alder in control it will burn hotter yet - But as long as I live here I hope I can keep that acreage under control enough to let the replanted trees grow well. Hopefully the next owner will too.

 

[edzz]

If I had my choice I would live right in the middle of 20 acres with 200 yds cleared around the house and shop. One access road in and out and claymore mines on trip wires in the tree line. The only open spot besides that would be the Range for long distance shots.

I just want to know how you'll get any sleep. Between the deer, elk, moose and even the damn turkeys setting off the trip wires...

 

[clearconscience]

Plus the complete change of true forestry management...

This!! The greenies have declared war on the timber companies that help manage the forest and keep all that kindling cleaned up.
They view forest fires as a natural act and send in limited resources to fight it, then it gets out of control and then they want Federal help.

Bring in the super tankers and bring them early!

 

[Ura-Ki]

This!! The greenies have declared war on the timber companies that help manage the forest and keep all that kindling cleaned up.
They view forest fires as a natural act and send in limited resources to fight it, then it gets out of control and then they want Federal help.

Bring in the super tankers and bring them early!

And they keep forgetting that those wonderful super tankers have NOT been FAA certified EVER and are only operated under the "Experimental Flight Rules" which has to keep being extended every year! Mean while, Cal-Fire has a whole fleet of S-2 Tracker turbines that do the real work on these fires, most airframes are 60 years old, how long can they expect them to last? Those S-2's can drop the same amount of retardant with three aircraft, and turn around three times each in the time it takes the Super to make one drop and then return to reload and then fly back out and drop again! Seen it many many times! Even the DC-10 Super does more work per flight hour! So yea, I say it's a big waste of a good airframe and equipment needed to keep it flying and dropping!

 

[justcuz]

Chuck DeVore wrote an interesting article for Forbes recently on Cali wildfires. Don't have link right now but it is a good read. Just google him, Cali wildfires and Forbes. Brutus Out

Brutus, thanks for the tip and extremely interesting read, it was appreciated!
I personally was surprised to see the CA politician give such a balanced oversight on the subject.

California's Devastating Fires Are Man-Caused -- But Not In The Way They Tell Us

 

[11Charlie]

I just want to know how you'll get any sleep. Between the deer, elk, moose and even the damn turkeys setting off the trip wires...

Guess I will need a bigger freezer!

 

[clearconscience]

Brutus, thanks for the tip and extremely interesting read, it was appreciated!
I personally was surprised to see the CA politician give such a balanced oversight on the subject.

California's Devastating Fires Are Man-Caused -- But Not In The Way They Tell Us

Thats a great write up.
Full of facts which the left hates!

The thing I found interesting was how they stopped burning the biomass because it burned dirty, and went to renewable energy.
By going "green" and not burning the extra brush for fuel they leave it and it burns anyway in forest fires and fuels those fires even more and makes them harder to fight.

In a way CA did the same thing with hunting cougar and bear.
They limit if not banned hunting them, lost money for conservation, then when they get out of control and start causing damage they pay people more money to do damage control hunts.

Seems a common logic for liberals. Lets spend money and save nature by spending more money to not take care of nature, then pay people more money to fix what we could have maintained while earning money.

 

[ATCclears]

California has 129 million dead trees. That's a huge wildfire risk.

 

[Decoy]

I live in the gorge on 60 plus acres that I am constantly working to clear areas of brush. A non ending battle but one that I enjoy, I have several pastures and the forest land behind my place was logged a few years ago giving me a slight break from the 100 of thousand acres behind that. There are trails that run all the way over to Carson from my place. Nothing back there for miles and miles except for maybe a few big foots.

The last several years I cleared out a 600 yard rifle/pistol range on the side of my place that serves as another fire break.

There are miles and miles of government land that could be logged for serious cash flow that could decrease our taxes by millions each year while making the forest accessible for everyone to use.

It would also make the forests accessible for fire fighters to fight the fires. Loggers make logging roads, these are what the fire crews need to be effective.

 

[ob1]

Seems a common logic for liberals. Lets spend money and save nature by spending more money to not take care of nature, then pay people moren't money to fix what we could have maintained while earning money.

Couldn't agree more. Locally, we should also take a long hard look at a court system that rewards teenage vermin with a slap on the hand when they are caught in the act of arson.