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NRA statement on open carrying of long guns

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Netspirit, Jun 2, 2014.

  1. Netspirit

    Netspirit Bellevue, WA Active Member

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    From http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/a...s-and-good-neighbors-the-gun-owners-role.aspx

    "Recently, demonstrators have been showing up in various public places, including coffee shops and fast food restaurants, openly toting a variety of tactical long guns. Unlicensed open carry of handguns is legal in about half the U.S. states, and it is relatively common and uncontroversial in some places.
    Yet while unlicensed open carry of long guns is also typically legal in most places, it is a rare sight to see someone sidle up next to you in line for lunch with a 7.62 rifle slung across his chest, much less a whole gaggle of folks descending on the same public venue with similar arms.

    Let's not mince words, not only is it rare, it's downright weird and certainly not a practical way to go normally about your business while being prepared to defend yourself. To those who are not acquainted with the dubious practice of using public displays of firearms as a means to draw attention to oneself or one's cause, it can be downright scary. It makes folks who might normally be perfectly open-minded about firearms feel uncomfortable and question the motives of pro-gun advocates.

    As a result of these hijinx, two popular fast food outlets have recently requested patrons to keep guns off the premises (more information can be found here and here). In other words, the freedom and goodwill these businesses had previously extended to gun owners has been curtailed because of the actions of an attention-hungry few who thought only of themselves and not of those who might be affected by their behavior. To state the obvious, that's counterproductive for the gun owning community.

    More to the point, it's just not neighborly, which is out of character for the big-hearted residents of Texas. Using guns merely to draw attention to yourself in public not only defies common sense, it shows a lack of consideration and manners. That's not the Texas way. And that's certainly not the NRA way."
     
  2. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    Amen!
    I agree that open carry isn't of any benefit except during hunting season.
     
  3. Hawaiian

    Hawaiian Tigard Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The majority of us here on NWFA and other forums have tried to convince the radical fringe of the open carry crowd that their actions are harming the rest of us. But they don't listen to us or anyone else. Can't fix stupid applies here.
     
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  4. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    I think the lack of enlightenment dawning on the OC crowd just illustrates how blind an ideology can make people to facts.

    No amount of facts can apparently change their minds, they are determined to win friends and influence people by alienating and scaring them off. How in the world that is supposed to succeed remains a mystery to me.

    Anyway good on NRA for their thoughtful and tactfully worded essay.
     
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  5. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    AMEN on this brother
    Open carry of rifles and other long guns is NOT furthering our cause
     
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  6. 3MTA3

    3MTA3 DMZ between Liberty and Tyranny Behind Enemy Lines Bronze Supporter

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    I'm beginning to wonder if some of these guys are working for the other side as agent provocateurs. The last two guys in Texas were obvious dumb***es, but I wonder about some of them.
     
  7. bnsaibum

    bnsaibum Corvallis, OR Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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    Texans may get more traction if they used dummy guns and holsters like this guy (Open Carry Texas FB admin). I'm sure if more Texas open carry activists had dummy guns and holsters they would use them. Anyone have a spare they want to send or perhaps make a donation?
     
  8. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    The only reason I dont heed the NRAs words is that most of those on their board are blue blood old timers and hunters.. They are not part of the black rifle or other various "untraditional" crowds in the firearm world.. Their ads and magazines are all about expensive paperweights (kimber) and as they put it "tier 1" gear.

    They arent OC friendly. GOA and OFF are MUCH better orginizations for 2A rights. The NRA is a fantastic orginization and does much for us.. However I feel they, at times.. Are vastly out of touch with reality and the firearms community.

    We're (the firearms community) very diverse.. Not all of us are black rifle guys, which I get.. but.. some of us are not hunters, or secret shame firearm owners.. Which at times, The NRA kowtows to the whim of the socialist agenda and puts out info like this as well as sits on its hands when they really need to speak up publicly.

    And yes I know, if we really want to shape the NRA into what we want one would need to be a life member and seek to get on the board... But there just isnt enough of us
    (either willing or even out there)
     
  9. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    Sadly.. There are so many secret shame firearm owning folks posting here..

    With your logic.. I could hardly take my rifle from my house to my car without having to go out of my way as to not scare off the sheeple and hoplophobesall the while making a mad dash to the trunk or front door in the hopes as to not scare any socialist vegans who might dare lay eyes on my evil black rifle.

    Your ideals turn our sport, lifestyle and community into one of evil and shame.. Its just as bad as the gun grabbers.. I see their brainwashing has seriously influenced many of you.

    So willing to turn on each other..
    Our evelutionary stage is not even one iota above an animal.. We are still savage, ruthless beasts.. Willing to sell out and ostracize one another for our next meal.. Or in this case to somehow figuratively grasp onto that last thread that is the tapestry of our constitutional right.. Which you all have made a tentative one..

    Just as we see with false "racist" accusations.. You all stand on the other side of the street with the mob mentality low information folks and point along with the crowd preaching: "Im not with him" or
    "Im not a part of that" ..only to better fit in with those who despise us, and you.. No matter who you throw under the bus.. Perhaps one OC'er, perhaps all of them.. The truth is hoplophobes and socialists will hate you no matter what, OC or not.. You're a firearm owner and thats enough.. God forbid you're christian, white and conservative.

    Our brotherhood is weak at best.
     
  10. soberups

    soberups Newberg Well-Known Member

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    There is a huge difference between carrying a long gun outside to put it the trunk of your car versus carrying it around a mall or restaurant or in front of a school to make a political statement.

    If someone gets their panties in a knot because they happen to see you putting a long gun in the trunk of your car, they are the one with the problem and I would have no sympathy for them. But if you think its perfectly OK to pack an AR 15 or an AK 47 into the restaurant where I am eating with my family or into the school that my kids attend, you are the one with the problem.

    "Hoplophobia" is defined as an irrational fear of guns. Given our recent history of mass shootings, it is certainly not "irrational" to be concerned or alarmed at the sight of someone carrying a military-style rifle into a restaurant or in front of a school.
     
  11. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    ZA the trouble is the OC guys are throwing all of us under the bus! cause the open carry guys aren't the only ones banned from these various restaurants and businesses.
     
  12. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I used to feel that way, but I have learned that the saying "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" generally seems to apply in almost all cases.

    Might there be some provocation going on by anti-gunners? Maybe, but probably only online - I really doubt they would be the ones to actually run around doing open carry of rifles when they can provoke stupid people to do it for them.
     
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  13. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Golly aren't we a little self righteous

    I don't 'hide' my guns to 'not scare' anyone while loading. I lived in Tacoma/Lakewood where I didn't care for the whole neighborhood to see what I was loading.
    And I am for open carry,just where it doesn't make us look like a bunch of hill billies or a bunch of wannabee mercenaries.
    When,throughout time, has carrying a rifle been anything but for a real problem.hunting something or someone down? Wasn't the rifle most always left in the truck or on the horse?
    Even when everyone carried a six gun they didn't carry their rifle around with them on their back
    It looks like the militia is moving in or someone is looking for someone,doing some social work.
    Not even close to OCing a handgun.
    Scaring people into accepting guns will not work.We will never agree with everyone on this or any topic. It's impossible.
    With guns there are folks who wonder why we want to OC or have a black gun. Heck what more do you need than a 30 06 and a 44mag on your hip.
    Then there is the ones who want to shove their beliefs down everybody's throats.'I'll carry anything I want wherever I want'.

    But that mentality doesn't work with any subject you want to argue on. You push too hard and just look like a zealot,a crazy.

    You want to show off while carrying? Carry a big stainless or nickel handgun in a real nice holster. Then act like a normal human being and not as if you are pushing your beliefs down someones throat.

    Wishin' I was perfect too
    Mike
     
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  14. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    That is a bit of a self-righteous attitude. There are plenty of people here, me included, that support open carry. But I also support common sense. And the fact of the matter is that taking a group of folks with AR's, AK's, SKS's, etc. draped over your shoulder and walking in as a group to a place like a restaurant does nothing but freak people out. Those like me who cc every day do so because we do support our 2A rights and want to exercise them. What I don't want to do is shove that in people's faces - all that ever does is cause problems. And yes, I happily carry my rifles to my car in full view of my neighbors - it's no bid deal.

    I get tired of listening to the OC crowd claiming only they truly support the 2nd amendment. Bullsh*t. Plenty of people that don't openly brandish their weapons in public settings strongly support their rights and want to keep those rights rather than have some OC bullies cause problems for the rest of us. Not only that, but talk to anyone that teaches defensive firearms and you're going to get the same response - open carry takes away the element of surprise from a potential attacker. It even gives them a tactical advantage over you and may even make you a target.

    I don't care if you choose to OC, go right ahead, but have some damn common sense about it. Don't walk around like an arrogant a$$ shoving your 'rights' in everyone's faces. It's only going to lead to more and more people standing up against pro-2A folks, which ultimately leads to more votes for more gun control. That's a fact. I guess if you want to see more restrictions, then the folks that hold these big OC events are doing exactly the thing that makes that happen. So I would question whether they really are in support of the second or not, because their actions do nothing but lead to more restrictions.
     
  15. bnsaibum

    bnsaibum Corvallis, OR Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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    I'm not calling you out specifically, your post is merely illustrative of a small part of the problem. The larger part is the general public perception of the Texas open carry crowd. Want to support the 2A and help them get their carry laws changed at the same time? Suggest they carry a dummy gun in an OWB holster. Send them a dummy gun and holster. Send a donation for them to buy some. Whining and complaining about their actions does nothing but divide all 2A supporters. Instead of doing the antis work for them find a constructive way to help.

    Image from Open Carry Texas Facebook admin CJ Grisham

    10313408_699547936758496_50183236453705813_n.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
  16. 1337BaldEagle

    1337BaldEagle Earth Active Member

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    "Sadly.. There are so many secret shame firearm owning folks posting here.."

    I agree with ZA. And this is why bear with me:

    First, let's talk about CJ Grisham and his group at that Mexican restaurant I can never seem to have spell check recognize. CJ Grisham's group apparently was "Invited" to the restaurant for a kind of "after the protest" meal. Apparently the manager is very gun friendly and supports their cause. Now you may ask why are they protesting anyway? Well, as many of you may know in Texas you CANNOT LEGALLY open carry a handgun. That leaves you with either 1) carry a rifle or 2) forced to get your CCW if you wish to carry at all. Now seen in this light, now can anyone see why one would have an issue? Let alone his incident with law enforcement which could have been handled better on both sides but as an officer of the law I lay the blame on them since it is their job to deescalate and or act in a manner that keeps a situation from escalating especially when a person is being 100% lawful. If you don't know what I'm referring to it's all over youtube. Now given his mistreatment and the states over bearing law prohibiting open carry one really shouldn't find it unreasonable that someone who has been invited to open carry at a place of business. It's not as if they were there to "draw attention to themselves 'look at me, I'm such a bad bubblegum'" it was look at me I'm being oppressed, and being forced to either register with the state as a gun owner or carry a rifle. Now for Sonic, apparently they go to several different Sonic's and they never have problems with any of them... that is until this one. They always had called ahead... that is until this one. A mistake, one that bit them in the bubblegum. As for Chepoltlay (I know I could just use google but I'm lazy) again, it's not unreasonable if they called ahead and asked and or if they were invited. None of this is being told along with the story. Allegedly, CJ was shocked to hear that there was an issue. He also noted if he ever is asked to leave by the PIC they leave, immediately.

    Further, the implications of making OC illegal as some "secret shame firearm owners" have made are dire. The whole reason why I own an AR is if the bubblegum hits the fan I have a weapon I can take with me that can put 3 rounds down range much faster than your 30-06. I don't want or need an officer the have a reason to stop me in a survival situation just to take my firearm away "because we can't be trusted when the bubblegum hits the fan." Making OC illegal affectingly kills any means of self defense with a rifle outside of your home. And if you have read any of the recent court rulings you will know the 2A does in fact extend outside of your home. Period.

    So, I guess what I'm saying is this situation has circumstances that goes beyond some people trying to intimidate people, it goes beyond people looking to fight with police, it is a legitimate fight for rights, a respectful fight for rights.

    And I fully support it. We can't afford to be divided on this issue. And I refuse to hear that refraining from carrying a rifle in public is just "common sense." Hmmmm, where have I heard that before?


    Eagle
     
  17. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    ZA, magazine inserted battle rifle brings up the seriously focused, interest in me.
     
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  18. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I agree, in part. As I stated in my post, I support open carry, I'm not against it. Rather, I'm for common sense in making choices with respect to open carry. Whining and complaining comes from the fact that it's the OC crowd that is causing these issues. I honestly can't recall a story where a group of concealed carry folks caused a big ruckus in some public place - because they are carrying concealed. I'm complaining because my right to carry is being infringed by our OC 'brothers' that want to push it on a public that doesn't always accept it.

    Common sense. I'll say it again, common sense. It's not giving in. It's not compromise. It's using your brain. It's noticing that big OC events are hurting our rights, not helping them. It's being smart enough to know that there are some lines that just shouldn't be crossed. It's keeping our rights in place by acting like the responsible citizens we all claim to be. In your face tactics rarely work, and if they do, it's usually only for a short time before the whole thing backfires.

    Would your suggestion about the dummy gun really help? No idea. If folks want to try it, I say go for it. I'd prefer that method of conditioning the anti-gun public over the methods currently being used.
     
  19. bnsaibum

    bnsaibum Corvallis, OR Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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    I don't know if a dummy gun would help either, but it is a far more constructive pursuit than b****ing and complaining about their current practices. It shows Texans that they are supported in their endeavors to have current law changed for the better. Sending a dummy gun and holster or a donation for the same also removes their possible excuse that not all Texas open carry advocates can afford the gear. Dummy guns run as little as $10 with holsters like the one pictured about $35. A lot cheaper than an AR, but many people have to save for months for an AR anyway.
     
  20. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I think it's very constructive. If you want the fake gun thing to work, first you have to stop them from doing the very thing that's causing the problem in the first place. So yeah, I'll keep talking about it because it's part of the problem. Keeping silent about it, as you would suggest I and others do - I don't see how keeping silent about the poor choices being made in the OC crowd helps our cause in any way. If you don't want to talk about it, that's fine, I'm not content to just let it go unsaid - especially when someone tells me to keep quiet about it ;)