My shopping experiences today

[Misteramax]

Would you tip me 5 bucks if I delivered a load of gravel to your house? (Poking the bear...)

Probably get something if you did it unannounced.

 

[ageingstudent]

Agree. I listened to two younger police officers trying to find a stolen truck one night and they got a bit in a hurry and mistook " box in the back of the pickup" and understood it to be a "box truck" and the stolen drove right by him and got away.

Ouch lol. Yeah you should hear some of the "conversations" between my boss and me...it usually consists of me repeating "no, you're not listening to me..." the fine art of hearing and understanding. Some folks just hear what they want to nevermind the truth.

 

[ageingstudent]

Probably get something if you did it unannounced.

Yeah but he'll be nervous everytime a dump truck rolls down his street now so it's worth it

 

[partsed]

I hate it when people say "you guys have a good day!!" Why can't they say "you folks have a good day"

 

[Misteramax]

I hate it when people say "you guys have a good day!!" Why can't they say "you folks have a good day"

 

[EPS]

Again, it's 2017. We expect too much from these kids. That's why the blue collar workforce that pays upwards of $50/hour is left dwindling while $12 barista jobs are flying off the shelves.

$100k/year for a journeyman electrician? Yep.

$25k/year for a Starbucks employee? Yep.

$25k for making coffee is way too much now if they where topless yeah $25k other wise $10.000 grand guy or girl LOL

 

[EPS]

OK refer to the post yesterday about person X bunch of B.S.

 

[akeefer]

It only gets worse. In my job, I have been hiring people for at 10 years now. I'm considered a millennial, but think I had a better upbringing than most.

I can honestly say it has continued a downwards slide. I long have wanted to believe the "good ol' days" mentality was just a lack of memory from how things really were. To a degree, I still see some things that way, but with changes with the children brought up now it's definitely changing.

So many kids these days don't even understand basic life skills. Things like, how to set up direct deposit. What does that even mean? I often find myself trying to help coach 18-24 yo's through basic complexities of life like how to buy a car, etc etc.

Then, as the theme of this thread goes, manners aren't the same. It isn't that they aren't grateful to some extent, it's just that the concept of "please" and "thank you" didn't apply to most situations as it did in other generations.

Don't think the retail world doesn't understand. In some training class online developed by one of the 2 large computer processor makers (I'll let you figure out who), goes into depth about how to interact and treat customers. They tell you how to talk to people 55+, 40-55, as well as millennials. It gives tips on how to greet, talk to, and use body language with. It's really quite interesting. Now, obviously most people haven't taken the class, but it shows a stark difference between the generations.

For example, you never want to shake a millennial's hand as a customer. You're best to smile, nod and say "How's it goin?". Seriously... but this is what that generation wants.

I'm not out to say one is better than another. Obviously I still agree that common decency suggests that please and thank you is grossly missing in today's world.

I guess, in the end, it's disappointing that it's not something that is valued in parents as well as general society that includes school and other environments.

And what about grammar and spelling???! Don't get me started!

Better get used to it though, millennials are now the largest part of the population. Boy am I getting old...

 

[CoastRange57]

In some training class online developed by one of the 2 large computer processor makers (I'll let you figure out who), goes into depth about how to interact and treat customers. They tell you how to talk to people 55+, 40-55, as well as millennials. It gives tips on how to greet, talk to, and use body language with. It's really quite interesting. Now, obviously most people haven't taken the class, but it shows a stark difference between the generations.

A friend of mine recently retired from that one company you are alluding to. 59 years old, 30 years at the company. He was in Logistics and made good money. They brought in some millennials from him to train and get them up to speed on how the logistics chain had been ran and what made it successful. Within 2 weeks, this group of snowflakes was trying to change everything the current group had in place and was uninterested in listening to anything the older workers had to say. My friend went and saw his financial planner who told him if he made 94 he would still have a million dollars left at his current rate of spending. My friend went back to his office, drafted his retirement notice and went to his VP's office to talk about the new trainees. The VP asked how they were doing, and he told them that the whole workplace culture was is for a huge change in the next 10 years, and he was not interested in training the new group past the next 30 days before he retired. The VP smiled and said he was about 4 months behind me, good luck been nice working with you.

I worked for a major turf equipment manufacturer and they finally got smart and hired some good people to set up people training skills, psychological training and interaction skills. I talked to the VP recently and asked him about some new hires they had made at the regional office. I said they are pretty young for regional sales reps, but that is the way the industry was heading. They are cheaper of course, but he had also brought in new trainers specializing in those exact age specific skills you mentioned to get them set for the next 10 to 15 years, since he is ejecting this fall at 62.

For example, you never want to shake a millennial's hand as a customer. You're best to smile, nod and say "How's it goin?". Seriously... but this is what that generation wants.

We were at a community event this last week that attracted a broad age group of people. Cars, airplanes, food, drink so there was a wide range of ages. 2 of our sons were there, we were standing there talking to them and a friend and couple of people walked up and that is exactly how it went. Only they did not even bother to introduce us old folk, just not required I guess.

Better get used to it though, millennials are now the largest part of the population. Boy am I getting old...

Exactly. Baby boomers are out of the work force in the next 8 years. What we think is immaterial to anything. The work world we have left can do just fine with us and after that I don't really give a rats azz, I intend to spend every dime I have before I croak, my kids all make more in their early 30's than I did at my peak earning years, have great homes and some have more in retirement funds than we do. I get the whole retire to a golf course community and drink and golf your golden years away. Mine will be more fishing, hunting and travelling but you get the point.

You gave a great explanation of what us old guys are trying to say and we could stop this thread with your post.

 

[Member 34319]

I'll sum up my thoughts on this matter with an analogy.

Grandpa loved to fish. All of his friends also loved to fish. He had three boys. Taught each how to fish.

Each boy left as an adult years later knowing how to fish.

Each boy had a son.

One of the boys took to fishing like his father and taught his boy to fish.

His two brothers did not like dealing with all the hassle of fishing. These two rarely took their kids fishing. Their kids sort of knew how to fish.

The children of the second generation are now coming to adult hood. Only one out of three sets of children really know or care about fishing as it was taught to them from a lineage of their heritage.

Society changed a bit, the area they lived in got bigger and more expensive. However, if the grandpa or second generation pushed fishing more onto their children. Everyone in my story would know how to fish.

Replace fishing with opening the door for a woman. See if the story changes much...

 

[Lazyfaire]

Again, it's 2017. We expect too much from these kids. That's why the blue collar workforce that pays upwards of $50/hour is left dwindling while $12 barista jobs are flying off the shelves.

$100k/year for a journeyman electrician? Yep.

$25k/year for a Starbucks employee? Yep.

I respectfully disagree. Expect too much? No. In the 60s-70s I went to a school that required yes sirs/maams and other verbal signs of respect. Please and thank you also. How we raise our children is by acting out our expectations of them so that when we are not around they know what is right and wrong. Our children learn to work and have an ethic about it by watching what we do and how we treat others.
I am proud of my daughter who is a hard worker and is sought after by her employers because of who she is. I look around and see general disrespect from young people who never had someone who cared enough about them to teach them these things. My wife liked it when I opened the door for her.
You guys who were military, do you still carry such values and tennets that you learned there forward in your lives? I'll bet you do. Having expectations of being treated better is not a bad thing.

 

[EPS]

Let's take the $15 a hour deal I have been known to leave really good tips but now if I'm in Seattle I kinda think about it more and some of the restaurants say no tips mmmmm I remember going to a place here in Anacortes party of 5 brand knew waitress lol but she did great I left a really good tip and after we left my sister ask me how much I tipped her because she saw her talking to the hostess just saying if you just give it to them they don't work for it

 

[Lazyfaire]

Let's take the $15 a hour deal I have been known to leave really good tips but now if I'm in Seattle I kinda think about it more and some of the restaurants say no tips mmmmm I remember going to a place here in Anacortes party of 5 brand knew waitress lol but she did great I left a really good tip and after we left my sister ask me how much I tipped her because she saw her talking to the hostess just saying if you just give it to them they don't work for it

Don't live up in Seattle but have friends in the business so I do try and follow what they are saying about the servers up there. Since the up in pay started they have let people go and so there are fewer staff on the floor to serve the same number of people. I am an ex-waiter/BT and still think that you tip when you get good service and a smile. If they helped you to enjoy your time with your family/friends then tip for the experience.15-20%+
But I do not believe in tipping for bad service or grumpiness. 5-10%max
Servers now work 25-30 hours a week. Don't let the good ones suffer for the bad ones.

 

[EPS]

Don't live up in Seattle but have friends in the business so I do try and follow what they are saying about the servers up there. Since the up in pay started they have let people go and so there are fewer staff on the floor to serve the same number of people. I am an ex-waiter/BT and still think that you tip when you get good service and a smile. If they helped you to enjoy your time with your family/friends then tip for the experience.15-20%+
But I do not believe in tipping for bad service or grumpiness. 5-10%max
Servers now work 25-30 hours a week. Don't let the good ones suffer for the bad ones.

If I get good or great service I always tip and like I said I don't have a problem leaving good tips or even great tips

 

[EPS]

I can look around a restaurant and see a full house with only a few waiter's or waitress and see them doing everything they can to keep people happy I never worked in that type of job and never want to

 

[Lazyfaire]

I can look around a restaurant and see a full house with only a few waiter's or waitress and see them doing everything they can to keep people happy I never worked in that type of job and never want to

I always remember thinking after 8 years of waiting/BT that I was still a BT, and in 5-10 years I could still be a BT. You either go into management or the same thing.

 

[johnny bob]

Depending on the cashier when they tell me "have a good one" I often reply "I do or yes, I do" and I get a kinda confused look in return. As far as thank you and please I remember my friend told me her Mom had told her "The heart is like a door that will open with ease when you say thank you and please". She has kids and grand kids that have grown up hearing that and I guarantee they are polite, respectful and know how the world works.

 

[etrain16]

I don't know if manners have gone away or if they've just changed a bit. Think back further than our own generations - say go back 100, 150 or more years - were manners in, say, the 1940's, 1950's different than 100 years before? Of course they were, societies change. Every new generation brings a new perspective on how to live, how to speak, how to interact. We use different ways of speaking now than we did 50 years ago. Is that necessarily bad? Not necessarily, but it can be hard to adjust to.

What I'm looking for is respect. Not so much the words, but the actions. When I'm doing business with someone, whether at a store, at a restaurant or even here on NWFA, I expect some simple things. Good communication probably being the biggest one. And by good, I don't mean being all blabby-mouthed. For example, I don't go to Dutch Brothers for coffee. I actually really like their coffee, and their service is really good too. But they have this weird policy of hiring young folks that can talk your ear off in the process of making one cup of coffee. I don't really care for small talk - they are masters of it. It almost seems forced, and it turns me off. I don't consider that good communication, I consider that just trying to fill in a gap that doesn't need to be filled. Take my order, look me in the eye so I know you're actually listening, repeat back what I said if you're not certain and thank me or politely send me on my way. Not hard to do. The exact words don't matter as much as the idea that I think that person is focused on me, the customer, at that moment in time.

My wife and I have instilled good manners in our daughter from the beginning. What I find is odd are the number of comments we get, say in a restaurant, about how polite our daughter is, specifically commenting on her 'good manners'. We have her place her own order at the table, and she always, without any prompting from us, thanks the waiter/waitress after taking her order. She also thanks them when they bring the food. If they ask if she wants a refill on her drink, she says 'yes, please'. I can't tell you how happy I am to see that in her - and I hope it continues in her adult life. She holds doors for people. One thing I know she sees daily, are good manners from her parents. She sees us wave people in front of us in traffic, she sees us say please and thank you, she sees us hold doors for folks and offer to help if someone seems to need it.

What does really irritate me - when I hold the door for folks and they don't even give so much as a nod of acknowledgment. That one really bothers me, more than some other failures in manners.

I have seen plenty of millenials with good manners. I don't like doing the "all people of this type are this way" type of stuff, because it just doesn't hold true. Many millenials have good work ethics (we have them in our office) and have good manners. In fact, I have met my fair share of Gen X'ers (I am one) and Baby Boomers that are complete azzholes in public, don't say please, don't say thank you and treat waiters, waitresses and others like sub-human idiots. Manners are learned and are a choice, it's really not generational. They may express their manners differently today than they would have 50 years ago, that's just part of the natural course of change. I look at the action more than the words - does this person really care that I'm there? Do they really appreciate my business? After almost 50 years, I can tell the difference, regardless of words used.

 

[CoastRange57]

Manners are learned and are a choice, it's really not generational. They may express their manners differently today than they would have 50 years ago, that's just part of the natural course of change. I look at the action more than the words - does this person really care that I'm there? Do they really appreciate my business? After almost 50 years, I can tell the difference, regardless of words used.

Exactly and you express this very well. When I worked for that turf manufacturer they stopped having the sales program of the quarter dog and pony show and hired a Carnegie VP to set up a real training program for all the national and regional sales staff and even down to the distributor level. They brought in industrial shrinks and behavior experts to set up training programs. It was 10 solid days of training over two years with online refresher work. It taught us how to read peoples expressions, the sales process, how the buyers think, the blocks, body language and how to build long term relationships with buyers in a market where a local sales person in a one state area may only have 400 potential targets to sell to, along with the competition. You had to have your sh*t together to make a living in that kind of market.

Between that and my early criminal justice and college Psychology, you pretty much learn where that persons head is at before you even say a word. Most interactions at the retail level now are the most fake and petty process, the clerks just extrude the vibe that they would really not like to be there,and as soon as your transaction is done they can get back to checking their phones. That is if they do not get interrupted and you have to repeat your order or process three or four times.

 

[Lazyfaire]

Learning to look someone in the eye, how to give a firm handshake (girls too), and to be polite to someone and are all life lessons. Holding a door open for the next person or for a woman, and if you walk through when someone does it you should always acknowledge it and say thank you. It is hard for someone to be mad at you if you are polite to them. You'll like you too.