Muzzleloaders and UPS?

[CountryGent]

So, I sold a muzzleloader on Gunbroker and I went to ship it UPS. I was told it needed to go to an FFL which is, naturally, flapdoodle. I explained to them that it was fine under federal law because it is not a "firearm". She gets on the phone with headquarters and they tell her it is fine as long as the arm was made before 1898 and demanded proof that it was made before then. I tried explaining to her that part of the law applies to cartridge firearms, not muzzleloaders. Still she wouldn't budge and fell back on "company policy". If this actually is company policy, and I doubt it is, it has to be new because I've bought muzzleloaders and they came directly via UPS. I ended up shipping it via another carrier.

I googled it and I can't find anything on the UPS site that addresses muzzleloaders, antique arms, etc., specifically. Would anyone know where I could locate it?

Thanks much.

Read More

 

[mjbskwim]

So why argue instead of just hopping over to FedEx?

 

[Flopsweat]

So why argue instead of just hopping over to FedEx?

Then send an email to UPS saying thank you so much for my refusing my patronage, I thought FedEx was awful but they did great so I'm using them from now on.

 

[CountryGent]

Wasn't an argument, I just explained the facts, but it bounced right off. And FedEx is an even further drive at around an hour and fifteen minutes, round trip, from where we live, so I do most of my shipping via USPS and UPS.

I'm just curious if this is an actual policy or not. If it is, it would have to be relatively new.

 

[Flopsweat]

Wasn't an argument, I just explained the facts, but it bounced right off. And FedEx is an even further drive at around an hour and fifteen minutes, round trip, from where we live, so I do most of my shipping via USPS and UPS.

I'm just curious if this is an actual policy or not. If it is, it would have to be relatively new.

I wouldn't give up. A lot of times these people will call "headquarters" with the wrong question or not enough information and get the wrong answer. Some are very reluctant to call again with the right information.

There is nothing on their firearms page about it. But there is a Contact Us page. Contact Customer Service: UPS

 

[CountryGent]

Thanks @Flopsweat. I didn't find much either. I'll drop a note and see what they say, because it would be good to know moving forward. Cheers.

 

[rick benjamin]

We know it doesn't have to go through an FFL.
Not breaking the law.
Box it up, label it as bicycle parts.

 

[Flopsweat]

We know it doesn't have to go through an FFL.
Not breaking the law.
Box it up, label it as bicycle parts.

Hey, now there is a thought. Break it down and label it as firearm parts. IIRC, their rules forbid shipping the part that is considered a firearm (usually the receiver). All the other parts are OK to ship. There is no part of that muzzleloader that is considered a firearm. Do they want to inspect the box before they ship it? If not, your conversation with them can be very short.

 

[etrain16]

I agree with just box it up and ship it as "parts" - you don't need to volunteer that information because it's not a legal issue. Just box it and ship it. I've done that myself with 2 BP guns before. Personally, I just use USPS, if they ask (they usually don't), I just note it as parts. Simple, problem solved.

That said, DO NOT ever do that with a regular firearm unless you want some big trouble.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

When shipping a muzzle Loader* I've worked on ... I've just said parts if asked.
Saves a hassle and not illegal.

*The muzzle loader needs to be a antique ( 1898 or earlier ) or of the traditional type ie: no in lines or modern "sealed ignition" or using modern 209 etc .. primers.
Some states do require you to ship any modern "traditional type" muzzle loader thru a FFL
Illinois comes to mind ... I'm sure there are more.
Check state laws before shipping.
Andy

 

[Alexx1401]

So, I sold a muzzleloader on Gunbroker and I went to ship it UPS. I was told it needed to go to an FFL which is, naturally, flapdoodle. I explained to them that it was fine under federal law because it is not a "firearm". She gets on the phone with headquarters and they tell her it is fine as long as the arm was made before 1898 and demanded proof that it was made before then. I tried explaining to her that part of the law applies to cartridge firearms, not muzzleloaders. Still she wouldn't budge and fell back on "company policy". If this actually is company policy, and I doubt it is, it has to be new because I've bought muzzleloaders and they came directly via UPS. I ended up shipping it via another carrier.

I googled it and I can't find anything on the UPS site that addresses muzzleloaders, antique arms, etc., specifically. Would anyone know where I could locate it?

Thanks much.

Every time the "ship a gun" thing comes up it's like the "flying with a gun" thing. I tell people when you fly I don't care if 50 people told you how it's a snap for them, get there plenty early. You may be the unlucky one who gets some robot who tells you no.
With shipping I have always said if you say "gun" you may well trigger the same robotic response. Then 50 more people will say it went fine when they did it. The "easy" way to do this is not tell them the word gun. As long as what you are doing is not in violation of law, saying the magic word "gun" to either FedEx or UPS is asking for this kind of hassle.

 

[Medic!]

The libtard at my local UPS store told me he couldn't ship an EO Tech.

I suspect some social statement has been evoked at Ups since the election.

 

[Flopsweat]

The libtard at my local UPS store told me he couldn't ship an EO Tech.

I suspect some social statement has been evoked at Ups since the election.

I went to renew a city boat ramp pass years ago and the lady at the desk asked if I had ever gotten a DUI. I said no, but I was just renewing my boat ramp pass and was this a new requirement. She said it was just something they were doing in the office now. I suggested that if there were no city ordinance about it, she might be setting herself up for trouble. She seemed to give it some thought. There was no mention of it the next year.

 

[Alexx1401]

I went to renew a city boat ramp pass years ago and the lady at the desk asked if I had ever gotten a DUI. I said no, but I was just renewing my boat ramp pass and was this a new requirement. She said it was just something they were doing in the office now. I suggested that if there were no city ordinance about it, she might be setting herself up for trouble. She seemed to give it some thought. There was no mention of it the next year.

I would be real curious to know who came up with that "idea" and what was being done with the info.

 

[Flopsweat]

I would be real curious to know who came up with that "idea" and what was being done with the info.

I got the impression they were just asking, not entering anything in a system. The way they were acting it seemed like the people in the office had just made it up themselves. I probably should have followed up with the city.

 

[CountryGent]

The muzzle loader needs to be a antique ( 1898 or earlier ) or of the traditional type ie: no in lines or modern "sealed ignition" or using modern 209 etc .. primers.

For whatever it is worth, the GCA68 was amended in 1998 so most modern in-line muzzle loaders or those using shotgun primers are an "antique firearm" under the aforementioned law. From the ATF:

We frequently receive questions concerning the sale of modern in-line muzzle loading rifles. Several years ago ATF determined that an in-line muzzle loading rifle using #209 shotgun primers for ignition was not an antique firearm and was subject to all provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA). However, the GCA was amended in 1998 and many in-line muzzle loading rifles are now antique firearms and are excluded from the provisions of the GCA.

....

Many modern in-line muzzleloaders including those that use #209 shotgun primers for ignition now meet the definition of "antique firearm" and are excluded from the provisions of the GCA. However, there are some muzzleloaders that are still firearms subject to GCA controls. For example, firearms which can be switched from muzzleloaders to breechloaders by exchanging the barrel are still GCA firearms. In addition, a modern firearm that is altered to function as a muzzleloader is still a firearm.

 

[CountryGent]

The libtard at my local UPS store told me he couldn't ship an EO Tech.

LOL! He has to be extra "special".

 

[mrblond]

makes ya wonder what TSA would do if you tried to get though with a bandoleer of flintlock pistols.. unloaded of course.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

For whatever it is worth, the GCA68 was amended in 1998 so most modern in-line muzzle loaders or those using shotgun primers are an "antique firearm" under the aforementioned law. From the ATF:

Good to know ... but state laws may differ, be sure to check on those.
Andy