Muzzle loader heirloom

[11Charlie]

I inherited this muzzle loader from my grandfather a while back. I have broke it down and looked High and low there are no markings anywhere.

Story is that my great great grandfather brought it to Kansas from East Germany and has handed it down form generation to generation. It is a double barrel, one is rifled and one bore is smooth. The stock has been all hand carved and the trigger guard is made out of walnut. (Yes a wood trigger guard) Its absolutely beautiful condition other than a few things that have been redone. for instance the rod is not original. I'm really looking to see if anyone knows the maker of it and possibly a value. I had one guy offer me $500.00 and my response was a resounding NO! If anyone has any idea of the origin or value please let me know.

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[giddyupgo55]

Nice looking gun. I would not sell it either.

 

[etrain16]

Beautiful!

Perhaps @AndyinEverson, our resident black powder guy, will be able to shed some light on what you have there.

I also agree with the above, that is something I'd likely never sell either.

 

[nextgenar]

A lot of trigger guards on old German guns were made of horn, is the trigger guard wood? It's an interesting color.

 

[11Charlie]

A lot of trigger guards on old German guns were made of horn, is the trigger guard wood? It's an interesting color.

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that it is Ebony.

 

[11Charlie]

Beautiful!

Perhaps @AndyinEverson, our resident black powder guy, will be able to shed some light on what you have there.

I also agree with the above, that is something I'd likely never sell either.

I will never sell but would really like to find out some back ground on it. The price is more for insurance reasons. I would like to build a rustic display case for it and mount it so it can be seen instead of locked away in my safe.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Beautiful combination gun you have.
Looks to be a "late"period gun , from the 1840's - 1860's.
Many German guns have a wood or horn trigger guard.
You are correct that the ramrod is a newer replacement.
Does it have any attachments on the rear?

Marking may be faint.
Often they are on the barrel flat , rib or under near the breech.
Of course in old guns they are often faint or if the gun has been reworked or refinished the may be gone...
The "fishscale" checkering , cheek rest and "gargoyle" entry , seem to my eye like many southern German , Austrian or Czech firearms I have seen.
Do you know the caliber or gauge?

From the photo it looks to be refinished , which might bring the value down.
Bore condition will play a part in the value.
Are there marks on the inside of the lockplate?
Have you checked in the patch box? Sometimes notes or owners marks are hiding in there...
That's all I have for now , sorry wish I was more help.
If you are ever up this way or have some time , contact me and I'd love to take a closer "in person" look.
Andy

 

[11Charlie]

Beautiful combination gun you have.
Looks to be a "late"period gun , from the 1840's - 1860's.
Many German guns have a wood or horn trigger guard.
You are correct that the ramrod is a newer replacement.
Does it have any attachments on the rear?

Marking may be faint.
Often they are on the barrel flat , rib or under near the breech.
Of course in old guns they are often faint or if the gun has been reworked or refinished the may be gone...
The "fishscale" checkering , cheek rest and "gargoyle" entry , seem to my eye like many southern German , Austrian or Czech firearms I have seen.
Do you know the caliber or gauge?

From the photo it looks to be refinished , which might bring the value down.
Bore condition will play a part in the value.
Are there marks on the inside of the lockplate?
Have you checked in the patch box? Sometimes notes or owners marks are hiding in there...
That's all I have for now , sorry wish I was more help.
If you are ever up this way or have some time , contact me and I'd love to take a closer "in person" look.
Andy

Thank you Andy, I don't know any details on it. I wish I knew the caliber. I have looked and found nothing stamped any where on the barrel or on the under side. The patch box didn't have anything in it either but you could tell that it was carved as it was not sanded out smooth or anything. I do make it up to the Arlington area once in awhile to visit family and friends. Maybe one of those trips we can meet somewhere so you can take a closer look. I will keep you posted. Thanks again for taking a look.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

You are very welcome!
Arlington isn't too far away and I really don't need a real reason to look at a beautiful old gun!
Feel free to contact me when you are up that way...
Andy

 

[Mark W.]

Joe Williams at the Gun Room in Springfield Oregon is one of the areas leading experts on muzzle loading firearms having been his business for nearly 40 years now.

You can look him up on line and send him some photos he might have some new info for you.

As to the trigger guard being Ebony that wood would be a terrible choice as it has such a tendancy to check and crack with age. The luster shown in your photo would lead me as an ex Custom Knifemaker who has worked with both Ceylon Ebony and Water Buffalo horn to think this is Horn. handling it in person could change my mind. A super easy test would be to take a sewing pin heat the point to red hot and touch it to an out of the way place on the guard. If you get a smoke and the smell of burning hair its HORN if not it could be wood. Wood will have pores in it look close with a magnifying glass.

 

[11Charlie]

Joe Williams at the Gun Room in Springfield Oregon is one of the areas leading experts on muzzle loading firearms having been his business for nearly 40 years now.

You can look him up on line and send him some photos he might have some new info for you.

As to the trigger guard being Ebony that wood would be a terrible choice as it has such a tendancy to check and crack with age. The luster shown in your photo would lead me as an ex Custom Knifemaker who has worked with both Ceylon Ebony and Water Buffalo horn to think this is Horn. handling it in person could change my mind. A super easy test would be to take a sewing pin heat the point to red hot and touch it to an out of the way place on the guard. If you get a smoke and the smell of burning hair its HORN if not it could be wood. Wood will have pores in it look close with a magnifying glass.

.

Thanks Mark I might try that. It would be interesting to know what it is. I have worked with a lot of wood in my life God only knows I have been wrong before but I would bet its wood. I will try and reach out to Joe. I would like to get as many people to look at it as I can. The history for my family in itself would be cool to know.