Meeting the Search Warrant Team

Contract_Pilot · Apr 15, 2012

Humdrum, just dont answer the door!

pakrat57 · Apr 15, 2012

dmancornell said:
even seemingly the most innocuous interaction with LEO can have horrific consequences.

The way I see it, in a highly charged situation, letting the police know your carrying would be less likely to end with "horrific consequences" than some adrenalin pumped officer somehow finding out on his own.

Bam · Apr 15, 2012

evltwn said:
PDX, this wasn't a traffic stop. This was a warranted search, lots of guns, battering ram, the whole nine yards. I come on the scene, and they are wondering who the heck I am, not a passerby, as only two houses on this particular driveway. I did what I consider the smart thing. Tell them up front, id myself, etc. They interviewed us for about 15 minutes, about the neighbor. Did you think it might put them in a better mood for THEM to discover I was carrying? Tell you what, when YOU are in this position, pontificate your little heart out. As it was, it worked just fine...for me, at least. The neighbor? Well, not so much.

No it wasn't a traffic stop, nor was the warrant being served on you, nor are you guilty by association.

Unless you fit your neighbor's description and can be confused as such or that warrant included you for whatever reason that cop had no PC to harass you. The worst he could have done was check your ID and that would have been it, BUT you essentially invited him to violate you for NOTHING and further encouraged him to be a crappy power tripping cop. Worst case you said nothing and he still searched you, you could have made a bonafide complaint against him and had an opportunity to correct him.

To repeat... you weren't the one being served the warrant, you weren't breaking any laws, the cops had no probable cause to harass you, BUT you gave them the reason. Come on people stuff like this is why we citizens are just as responsible for poor LEO behavior, we practically encourage it and in this case even accept it. You have rights, USE them instead of giving them up.

You call it playing it safe, I call it getting raped.

MarkAd · Apr 15, 2012

Interesting opinions. When I CC it is no ones business.
The cops put you in a bad position. If trouble had occurred and you injured they would have been liable.
They should have sent you inside your house for safety sake. And then when it was safe come and ask to speak with you about your neighbor.
Regarding pontificating you posted in the forum thereby inviting debate.

plumberfishes · Apr 16, 2012

Wow there are some angry paranoid people on here . Evilt I think you did the right thing, I would rather be "groped" by 100 cops, than shot by 1!

Blitzkrieg · Apr 16, 2012

evltwn said:
PDX, this wasn't a traffic stop. This was a warranted search, lots of guns, battering ram, the whole nine yards. I come on the scene, and they are wondering who the heck I am, not a passerby, as only two houses on this particular driveway. I did what I consider the smart thing. Tell them up front, id myself, etc. They interviewed us for about 15 minutes, about the neighbor. Did you think it might put them in a better mood for THEM to discover I was carrying? Tell you what, when YOU are in this position, pontificate your little heart out. As it was, it worked just fine...for me, at least. The neighbor? Well, not so much.

If you said anything about the neighbor that helped them put him away for a trumped up crime then shame on you. You should have used the 5th and 110% shut up

Blitzkrieg · Apr 16, 2012

plumberfishes said:
Wow there are some angry paranoid people on here . Evilt I think you did the right thing, I would rather be "groped" by 100 cops, than shot by 1!

And so you roll on your back like a puppy and beg the nice policemen not to hurt you and the BORs vanishes in a puff of smoke

The Founders would be dismayed to say the least

Redcap · Apr 16, 2012

Redcap · Apr 16, 2012

Blitzkrieg said:
And so you roll on your back like a puppy and beg the nice policemen not to hurt you and the BORs vanishes in a puff of smoke

The Founders would be dismayed to say the least

Damn right they would be!

mjbskwim · Apr 16, 2012

Contract_Pilot said:
What ever you do... do not talk to the police!! Even if you think it is harmless chit chat.. LEO's are not your friend and not there to help you in this BS Society! If they are serving a warrant I would assume they know who all the neighbors are and what they drive.

"asked some questions about our neighbors"

Remember, Anything you say can and will be used against you not for you.. Now you place your self in a position of being used as a witness against your neighbor depending on what you told the LEO...

As he says in the video "can and most definitely will be used against you"

coop44 · Apr 16, 2012

First of all, were there any female officers available when you needed a good groping?
Secondly did they proceed in a brisk manner or did they slooooowly grope you?
Truthfully if you moan or wiggle your butt a bit it really puts them off, either that or you may make a "special friend" on the force.

I always give police a big smile, and a "how are you today?", following with my reason for being there. A "doing the lords work", or a "can I please show you my identification?", doesn't hurt either. To put them off guard, always try to ask them before they ask you. A "can I wait over there?" or "when can I go to my house?", I would much rather be seen as a little strange and non-threatening, than as a possible threat. Keeps me out of cuffs until things get sorted out. Only ask questions that do not require a bunch of thought to answer, lots of leo's get mad when they have to come up with involved answers, I think it gives them headaches.

Unless I am on the verge of being detained and searched, I would refrain from telling them I am wearing a concealed weapon. Why ask for trouble?

Careful what you do say, anything you say can be used against you. Nothing you say will be used to your benefit. Anything can be taken out of context as a valid reason to detain you. That's why I like questions, simple ones.

evltwn · Apr 16, 2012

When I posted this experience I figured it would draw a varied response, and boy, did it ever! Although I disagree with some of the opinions, God bless you for taking the time. Thanks for those who included kind words, and for the others, thanks as well. I appreciate reading other avenues of thought.

hermannr · Apr 16, 2012

evltwn said:
When I posted this experience I figured it would draw a varied response, and boy, did it ever! Although I disagree with some of the opinions, God bless you for taking the time. Thanks for those who included kind words, and for the others, thanks as well. I appreciate reading other avenues of thought.

IMHO: (BTW: I live in the same situation...the gate is on my property though, I allow the neighbors to use the first 1/2 to get to their house)

so: my way would be....

You identify yourself as the owner of the other house and ask what is going on. I never, ever volunteer I am armed, but as I OC 99% of the time, there is no need. If the officer were to disarm me, I would complain, but not resist...AND I would file a formal complaint at the Sheriff's office. I was not the subject of the search, I was on my own personal real property, and Other than identifying myself (verbally) I would have real problems being disarmed. In your particular situation, I would show my drivers license if asked, but that would be it, and I would not like that.

The Officer needs to know who you are, but I will guarantee A 65 year old, 6' 1", 200lb male does not look like a 30 year old, 5' 3", 120 lb female (my neighbor) if they were to ever come for her.

humdrum · Apr 16, 2012

When did it become "en vogue" for a group of decent gun-owners to became so anti-police or at least anti-cooperative of them, and talk like they/we do everything in our power to keep the nieghborhood LEO on thier heels? I understand using ones' rights to the full-extent of thier knowledge, but isn't it more nieghborly and cordial to just comply (within reason) to a few simple, albiet inconvenient requests? It seems to me that if the officer is good, upfront and honest with me, then it's no big deal to be that way in return.

hermannr · Apr 16, 2012

humdrum said:
When did it become "en vogue" for a group of decent gun-owners to became so anti-police or at least anti-cooperative of them, and talk like they/we do everything in our power to keep the nieghborhood LEO on thier heels? I understand using ones' rights to the full-extent of thier knowledge, but isn't it more nieghborly and cordial to just comply (within reason) to a few simple, albiet inconvenient requests? It seems to me that if the officer is good, upfront and honest with me, then it's no big deal to be that way in return.

Ask your neighborhood LEO that: Why can they not respect law abiding citizens? It's all "ME"with them...my safety, my wants my desires, I am more important that you average scum...

I don't have a problem with my local LE personell because they do not act as above...but the first indication of "Me" arrogence is to disarm a law abiding citizen for no reasonable reason other to make themselves feel more comfortable, and because they think they can get away with it. Well, I would think maybe that for that same reason they need to disarm before they enter my property....what do you think? Lot more law abiding citizens shot by LEO's than LEO's shot by law abiding citizens. Oh, that's right, we don't count.

If you want the basis of my rant, read this: (BTW: this was on Creech's own property, Creeck's pistol was in it's holster, Hirzel stated in the investigation Creech never pointed the weapon at him, and that he put it away in his waist band instead of Dropping it......and Hirzel was never charged.. IMHO Scott Creech died tried, convicted and executed for "contempt of cop". One of many, local very liberal newspaper story... Creach shooting - Topic page at Spokesman.com

Blitzkrieg · Apr 16, 2012

humdrum said:
When did it become "en vogue" for a group of decent gun-owners to became so anti-police or at least anti-cooperative of them, and talk like they/we do everything in our power to keep the nieghborhood LEO on thier heels? I understand using ones' rights to the full-extent of thier knowledge, but isn't it more nieghborly and cordial to just comply (within reason) to a few simple, albiet inconvenient requests? It seems to me that if the officer is good, upfront and honest with me, then it's no big deal to be that way in return.

Because it's our rights? You cede way too much in the name of "cooperation", sir

I am not anti cop if they obey the Constitution, in fact I would risk my safety to help a true red white and blue cop doing right but I am very much anti tyranny

humdrum · Apr 16, 2012

Seems I may have hit a nerve. Apparently I have never had the miss-fortune of dealing with the overly power-hungry policeman; the likes of which everyone else seems to have. Maybe I'm fortunate in that regard, or maybe I'm just jaded. Living in a city were the police have a reputation for being confrontational and usually uncompromising with the criminal populus I have never been made to feel like "average scum" or that I "don't count" as Hermannr phrased it. Or maybe I'm not fortunate; It may just be the way in which I walk, dress, act and speak that sets me apart from the previously mentioned criminals, and thus I'm not treated as one. I'm sorry for the animosity some of the NWFA members show toward local law enforcement, and I'm sure the reasons are good, but I can't argue against police men and women when I have personally never been wronged by them.

Blitzkrieg · Apr 17, 2012

You may be the perfect lemming who no one cares about and you may never have read the many clear stories of police brutality and even murder but you do need to use spell check

humdrum · Apr 17, 2012

Come on Blitz, we shouldn't have to stoop to name calling. I have my point of view, and you have yours. End of story. I don't know if you've been groped or sensualy patted-down by the police in your life to have such an opinion, but if you were I wouldn't find it necessary to call you "easy" to get my point across. It's counter-productive. As far as the "clear stories" mentioned; I wasn't there and it didn't happen to me so my personal interactions of which I spoke remain unchanged. On this topic I was not speculating scenarios or "what-if's" between the police and myself, or the reported wrong-doings of a few bad-eggs. I was only speaking to my personal experiences of which none of them ended with me being beaten, robbed or shot. Therefor I still have no good reason to distrust police. Oh, saree fer knot bean a gud speler, Blitzkrieg. I understand things sometimes get heated, so no hard feelings...

Blitzkrieg · Apr 17, 2012

humdrum said:
Come on Blitz, we shouldn't have to stoop to name calling. I have my point of view, and you have yours. End of story. I don't know if you've been groped or sensualy patted-down by the police in your life to have such an opinion, but if you were I wouldn't find it necessary to call you "easy" to get my point across. It's counter-productive. As far as the "clear stories" mentioned; I wasn't there and it didn't happen to me so my personal interactions of which I spoke remain unchanged. On this topic I was not speculating scenarios or "what-if's" between the police and myself, or the reported wrong-doings of a few bad-eggs. I was only speaking to my personal experiences of which none of them ended with me being beaten, robbed or shot. Therefor I still have no good reason to distrust police. Oh, saree fer knot bean a gud speler, Blitzkrieg. I understand things sometimes get heated, so no hard feelings...