Oregon Measure 114 litigation

[Esholalex]

Pretty tough to create a pdf or text type file from cell phone. I am unable to submit anything.

Go to share, click It , there will be options to "save as " a pdf

 

[1911Fanatic]

Unfortunately, it's going to take someone telling them to F off to get this into a court battle that might be the key to overcoming it in the end. Who wants to be the test subject though?
Hate to say it but people with families/children and a lot of life left on the clock aren't going to put up that fight and the antis know it.

So let's say that you get pulled over, and had a Glock with two 17 round mags, and the cop notices it. Then what? You surrender your 17 round mags to the cop then and there, and then you aren't charged for carrying the mags or possession of them? So no misdemeanor then?

 

[Jcon268]

So let's say that you get pulled over, and had a Glock with two 17 round mags, and the cop notices it. Then what? You surrender your 17 round mags to the cop then and there, and then you aren't charged for carrying the mags or possession of them? So no misdemeanor then?

I don't know. You could argue to the officer that you had them before the ban, although you might be SOL for whatever is being carried/loaded into the firearm. It might be easier (depending who the cop is) to make that argument for other mags that you're not using for carry purposes. If you were at a shooting range, or shooting in the forest for example they MIGHT be more lenient. This is all gray area.

 

[fmvolume86]

Here's the truth.... real liberals (not classical, real) believe in individual liberty, as understood by the founders of America. Democrats, at some point, were full of liberals (free speech, gun rights, privacy,) but in the last two decades they've been infiltrated by Progressives who've taken an "ends justify the means" approach to solving problems through government, which has led them to collectivism (e.g. socialism, communism.) The liberals who were principled have either migrated to the Independent/Libertarian/Republican party, or they're currently having an identity crisis in the Democratic party. Liberalism and collectivism are specifically incompatible with each other. Trump is more liberal than any other president in my lifetime, and I'm totally here for it, which is strange to say for someone who believes in not having any government.

Show your wife what liberalism philosophy is, then ask her which party represents that more.

which is why I keep saying to stop using the word "liberal" call the Leftists what they are, Fascists. I mean the Right are the new Liberals in my opinion and I was raised Liberal.... I didn't change which is why I vote Right. But people continue to call them Liberal and call the Right conservative. Honestly everyone is dumb and we continue to do a diservice to ourselves using this language. Just my opinion.

 

[1775usmc]

I don't know. You could argue to the officer that you had them before the ban, although you might be SOL for whatever is being carried/loaded into the firearm. It might be easier (depending who the cop is) to make that argument for other mags that you're not using for carry purposes. If you were at a shooting range, or shooting in the forest for example they MIGHT be more lenient. This is all gray area.

I may be wrong but I think the wording in 114 states that "high capacity" mags have to be secured separate from the firearm during transport. So you'd be screwed either way. Especially with plain view doctrine.

Before or after the ban won't make a difference at that point. And if 114 passes it will be a misdemeanor to carry 11+ mags.

A general rule is be smart and don't leave your stuff in plain view or with needed documents for a traffic stop.

Don't rely on LE to turn a blind eye to it either.

 

[Jcon268]

I may be wrong but I think the wording in 114 states that "high capacity" mags have to be secured separate from the firearm during transport. So you'd be screwed either way. Especially with plain view doctrine.

Before or after the ban won't make a difference at that point. And if 114 passes it will be a misdemeanor to carry 11+ mags.

A general rule is be smart and don't leave your stuff in plain view or with needed documents for a traffic stop.

Don't rely on LE to turn a blind eye to it either.

Yeah I've never transported mags of any size in plain view, just doesn't sounds smart ya know? I don't know anyone else who would claim to have done that either. What I do either a) stays at home, b) is transported secure and out of sight only when going to a range/outdoor shooting spot c) is opened and used at said destination.

I think the real eye-opener is going to see how they prosecute someone who used a 10+ magazine in a justified self-defense scenario. Crime vs. crime now. What if a gun owner stops a mass shooting one day BUT used a 10+ mag? Thanks for being the hero, now go to jail?

 

[1775usmc]

Yeah I've never transported mags of any size in plain view, just doesn't sounds smart ya know? I don't know anyone else who would claim to have done that either. What I do either a) stays at home, b) is transported secure and out of sight only when going to a range/outdoor shooting spot c) is opened and used at said destination.

I think the real eye-opener is going to see how they prosecute someone who used a 10+ magazine in a justified self-defense scenario. Crime vs. crime now. What if a gun owner stops a mass shooting one day BUT used a 10+ mag? Thanks for being the hero, now go to jail?

Im sure they will still be hit with the misdemeanor of the high cap mag. And the prosecution will try and twist it into something more than it is.

I know I don't want to be the test subject.

Hopefully this whole 114 BS doesn't occur. But I'm not holding my breath. Worse case scenario is I carry 2 mags instead of just 1.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

So let's say that you get pulled over, and had a Glock with two 17 round mags, and the cop notices it. Then what? You surrender your 17 round mags to the cop then and there, and then you aren't charged for carrying the mags or possession of them? So no misdemeanor then?

Not sure what your scenario is but I am always driving to or from a place of recreational shooting. Always. Also don't let the cop see them. Also put in a locked storage container (which is undefined). Ziploc bag?

 

[Jcon268]

Im sure they will still be hit with the misdemeanor of the high cap mag. And the prosecution will try and twist it into something more than it is.

I know I don't want to be the test subject.

Hopefully this whole 114 BS doesn't occur. But I'm not holding my breath. Worse case scenario is I carry 2 mags instead of just 1.

The takeaway here is when a law becomes so complicated and poorly defined that people cannot know when they are complying or violating it, IT'S A bubblegumTY LAW. Throw it away.

 

[arakboss]

So let's say that you get pulled over, and had a Glock with two 17 round mags, and the cop notices it. Then what? You surrender your 17 round mags to the cop then and there, and then you aren't charged for carrying the mags or possession of them? So no misdemeanor then?

That's the way I understand it.

 

[1775usmc]

The takeaway here is when a law becomes so complicated and poorly defined that people cannot know when they are complying or violating it, IT'S A bubblegumTY LAW. Throw it away.

Agreed. But we are ruled by retards.

 

[metalhead68]

I"m a little shocked that they would close this thread, everything about this measure effects everyone affiliated with it this site and very well would effect the future of this site.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I"m a little shocked that they would close this thread, everything about this measure effects everyone affiliated with it this site and very well would effect the future of this site.

Most likely because of politics and people being "less than excellent" (Rule 1 here, "be excellent to each other" )

 

[lucusloc]

Yeah, there was a spat of "heated discussion" and name calling quite a few pages back, mostly over unrelatedish political stuff just like the banner says. I think a good chunk of that has already been deleted? Honestly I have not gone back to check. Personally I think this thread is too valuable to be culled over that kind of stuff and deleting the offending posts is plenty good enough, but if people don't get the message then a reset may be the only good option. Its not like we can't just start another thread minus the problematic politics, it just means someone has to go through the past few hundred pages to pull out the good stuff. Let's just keep it civil and topical, and then we don't have to worry about it m'kay?

 

[TTSX]

Isn't all the speculation fun? We're all going to be running mostly blind until the first few court cases for 11+ mags OR a 10- mag with a removable baseplate deemed also "high cap" are worked through.

 

[lucusloc]

Isn't all the speculation fun? We're all going to be running mostly blind until the first few court cases for 11+ mags OR a 10- mag with a removable baseplate deemed also "high cap" are worked through.

Agreed, it is all speculation until actual court precedent is set on the topic. Unless SCOTUS moots everything in the next few years it will probably take decades until we have all the answers.

 

[Bobbygun]

I suspect we will hear very little about people being charged with possessing "high capacity" magazines. I can't recall ever seeing anything about someone being charged with selling a firearm in violation of SB941 and that passed years ago. The number of people who are prosecuted for lying or falsifying information on a Form 4473 is really small - Hunter Biden comes to mind. They just like to pile on the laws to keep the law-abiding folks in line and show us who's the boss.

 

[1775usmc]

I suspect we will hear very little about people being charged with possessing "high capacity" magazines. I can't recall ever seeing anything about someone being charged with selling a firearm in violation of SB941 and that passed years ago. The number of people who are prosecuted for lying or falsifying information on a Form 4473 is really small - Hunter Biden comes to mind. They just like to pile on the laws to keep the law-abiding folks in line and show us who's the boss.

Yup. They will just be additional charges that can be used/thrown in a case.

 

[lucusloc]

I suspect we will hear very little about people being charged with possessing "high capacity" magazines. I can't recall ever seeing anything about someone being charged with selling a firearm in violation of SB941 and that passed years ago. The number of people who are prosecuted for lying or falsifying information on a Form 4473 is really small - Hunter Biden comes to mind. They just like to pile on the laws to keep the law-abiding folks in line and show us who's the boss.

This is a trend with almost all gun laws, especially NICS;

https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-18-440.pdf

Each one of those denials is a potential felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison. They investigated ~10% of them, and prosecuted .001% of them.

That is either an astoundingly high false positive rate (as a unjustified denial is a violation of a civil right), or an astoundingly low prosecution rate for a serious and provable felony. There really is no other way to slice those numbers.

 

[mhayd93]

Civil Disobedience