Maintenance/Repair On AR15 With "Permanently" Fixed Pivot Pin?

[Hueco]

Yes. The pin would be welded so it could not be pushed out to release upper from lower. But the upper would still be free to pivot on the pin.

My first thought was that having a second detent on the left side of the lower that locked into the pivot pin when fully seated, but which offered no readily available way to depress, would be as good as permanent.

There doesn't seem to be enough material on my aero lower to get this done without breaking into the magwell, but the seekins one has a fence on the left side that may prove useful for it.

If this were just your gun, then a weld somewhere seems a decent choice. If this is a thought experiment should some sort of legislation come down, then something like the detent idea above seems useful. Least amount of extra work involved, uses stock parts, allows standard assembly.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

If I was to weld the pivot pin to prevent removal on an AR15, would that prevent any maintenance or repairs from being done on the firearm (besides replacement of receivers)?

I would think blind pinning it would be the easiest way to get to where you want to go.

 

[arakboss]

Yes, it would definitely hinder things but most repairs or part replacements could still happen with some ingenuity. Even a barrel replacement.

There is other ways to do it with a drill press. Both are really bad ideas because someone will try to hammer them out and destroy the receiver.

To permanently fix the front pin. Drill the take down pin detent hole deeper. You will never get the pin out without damaging the receiver.

To make it to require tools to remove, after drilling the detent hole deeper, drill a small hole from the bottom of the detent hole through the other side of the detent pin head. Then you can use paper clip to push the dentent pin to release the take down pin. This only works if the handguard allows clearance for a paper clip.

Thank you for the closest I received to an answer for my question out of 14 or so replies. My main concern would be a barrel swap as the combined receivers would eliminate the use of a standard upper receiver vice block. You could probably use a reaction rod or something similar for the barrel swaps. Other than that it seems like most other maintenance and repairs could be done with the receivers attached?

 

[Pepe-lepew]

A reaction rod or my method of clamping a flat top to a bench would still work. To remove a barrel nut.

The problem I see is the receiver flopping around while trying to clean or repair. If you are not careful, it could put a lot of stress on the receivers pin lugs trying to manipulate the assembly.

 

[arakboss]

Is this to match your permanently modified 10 round magazines in preparation for IP7 & 8?

Yes, this is what IP 18 has to say about firearms similar to the banned firearms:

(j) Includes any type, series or model of a firearm that is a variation, with minor differences, of a firearm model described
in paragraphs (a) to (i) of this subsection, regardless of the manufacturer.

If a person was to convert their AR15 to a manual loading version, it might be prudent to have more differences rather than less differences. I would like to lawfully avoid registering my firearms and still be able to sell them in state after the ban begins. The FFLs will be the deciding factor as to whether they are considered a banned firearm or not. The more differences between a standard AR15 and my converted firearm, the better my chances at finding an FFL who will do the transfer.

 

[arakboss]

A reaction rod or my method of clamping a flat top to a bench would still work. To remove a barrel nut.

The problem I see is the receiver flopping around while trying to clean or repair. If you are not careful, it could put a lot of stress on the receivers pin lugs trying to manipulate the assembly.

Can you explain this method in more detail: "method of clamping a flat top to a bench would still work"

 

[Horatius]

People don't know what you're doing, you won't tell them, you must be stupid? that about cover most of your replies

 

[arakboss]

People don't know what you're doing, you won't tell them, you must be stupid? that about cover most of your replies

 

[BillM]

If I was to weld the pivot pin to prevent removal on an AR15, would that prevent any maintenance or repairs from being done on the firearm (besides replacement of receivers)?

No. Even replacing a receiver would be possible--easier than a pinned/welded muzzle device.

 

[arakboss]

I would think blind pinning it would be the easiest way to get to where you want to go.

Blind pinning seems very permanent, I will consider that. I was looking at using this pin set up and welding the nut on but the blind pinning would be much cheaper.

Cross Armory | PIN PAL | CA Compliant AR-15 Parts | AR Takedown Pin

Cross Armory PIN PAL replaces your AR’s front takedown pin. In heavily regulated states AR-15 owners are now opening their receivers with great frequency. A more durable pin system is needed to prevent undue wear on the forward pivot point – the upper receiver's takedown pin hole.

crossarmory.com

 

[arakboss]

My first thought was that having a second detent on the left side of the lower that locked into the pivot pin when fully seated, but which offered no readily available way to depress, would be as good as permanent.

There doesn't seem to be enough material on my aero lower to get this done without breaking into the magwell, but the seekins one has a fence on the left side that may prove useful for it.

If this were just your gun, then a weld somewhere seems a decent choice. If this is a thought experiment should some sort of legislation come down, then something like the detent idea above seems useful. Least amount of extra work involved, uses stock parts, allows standard assembly.

I think @JustSomeGuy idea of blind pinning would be similar to your idea. I believe there is enough material in the pivot pin ear to drill through and into the pivot pin. A gas tube size roll pin might be good enough to hold the pivot pin in place or the detent you won't need for pivot pin. If you ever had a need to separate the receivers, you might be able to drill out the pivot pin to a depth beyond where the roll or detent pin is to release the pivot pin from the receivers. It would take some precise drilling to avoid enlarging the pivot pin ear.

This might be a good spot for a roll pin (spot is marked but barely visible).

 

[Pepe-lepew]

Can you explain this method in more detail: "method of clamping a flat top to a bench would still work"

I use a heavy cast iron bench that is machined flat on the top. I use two pieces of 1/2 flat bar, one on the bottom and one on the top of the receiver and clamp the stack to the bench with heavy c-clamps. The bottom flat bar must be against the front take down pin boss. I put thin paper between the reciever and flat bar to protect the finish.

This method is much more solid than the receiver clam shells and less likely to tweak a receiver. It transfers the holding force onto machined flat surfaces and in strong directions of the receiver. Unlike clam shells that hold and transfer load to non-uniform casting surfaces. The key is a solid flat bench and very rigid C-clamps.

I don't like reaction rods because the thread friction force can be transferred through the barrel alignment pin and cause damage to the reciever. Reaction rods that have the full length fin that holds the length of the gas key channel are much better and ideal. They are expensive and you need two if you do AR10 platforms.

 

[Cerberus Group]

i predict eight pages.

You're being conservative, but I love your thought process

 

[User 1234]

This idea is founded on a belief that a fixed pivot pin will provide some legal benefit. From what I've seen quoted about IP17/18 I don't see where a fixed pivot pin would provide any legal advantage.

 

[Stomper]

Yes, this is what IP 18 has to say about firearms similar to the banned firearms:

(j) Includes any type, series or model of a firearm that is a variation, with minor differences, of a firearm model described
in paragraphs (a) to (i) of this subsection, regardless of the manufacturer.

If a person was to convert their AR15 to a manual loading version, it might be prudent to have more differences rather than less differences. I would like to lawfully avoid registering my firearms and still be able to sell them in state after the ban begins. The FFLs will be the deciding factor as to whether they are considered a banned firearm or not. The more differences between a standard AR15 and my converted firearm, the better my chances at finding an FFL who will do the transfer.

No offense INTENDED, but…. You're wasting your time "straining at knats". These motherbubblegummers won't, don't, know the difference between all the weasely "loopholes" they've left in their stupid little "initiatives". They don't want you to have ANY guns and if you let them, they'll take whatever neutered ineffectual monstrosity you concoct because it'll still LOOK like an "assault weapon"… if you let them.


Phuck them, I'll continue to live as a vested, free (and blooded) citizen of a constitutional republic, and not some cowering serf /subject that gets blown about by every fart storm a gaggle of phuckin' PUZZIES generates. My enumerated rights are NOT open for a popular vote by the likes of them.

 

[Nosferatu]

A piece of steel rod, peened on both ends will give you a rivet that will require drilling to remove. Not sure if that's permanent enough for you.

 

[Koda]

I just dont see how a DIY fixed pin mod is going to be a deciding factor from an FFL to allow a sale to go thru.

 

[Horatius]

"To every man upon the earth, death cometh soon or late;
And how can man die better, than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods,"
from, Horatius at the Bridge,
by Thomas Macaulay

 

[Horatius]

I just dont see how a DIY fixed pin mod is going to be a deciding factor from an FFL to allow a sale to go thru.

Not everyone will be willing to become a felon, I get that. He clearly stated he was considering this and other mods to TRY and stay within the law. I personally am leaning with Stomper on this issue. not one more inch.

 

[arakboss]

No offense INTENDED, but…. You're wasting your time "straining at knats". These motherbubblegummers won't, don't, know the difference between all the weasely "loopholes" they've left in their stupid little "initiatives". They don't want you to have ANY guns and if you let them, they'll take whatever neutered ineffectual monstrosity you concoct because it'll still LOOK like an "assault weapon"… if you let them.


Phuck them, I'll continue to live as a vested, free (and blooded) citizen of a constitutional republic, and not some cowering serf /subject that gets blown about by every fart storm a gaggle of phuckin' PUZZIES generates. My enumerated rights are NOT open for a popular vote by the likes of them.

That all works well and good until you show up at the FFL, post IP 18, trying to transfer your non-neutered AR15 to another chap. I guess you could just skip the FFL too.