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Long Island Man Arrested For Defending Home With AK-47

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by NWGUNGUY, Sep 7, 2010.

  1. NWGUNGUY

    NWGUNGUY Portland Oregon New Member

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    UNIONDALE, N.Y. (CBS 2) — He was arrested for protecting his property and family.

    But it’s how the Long Island man did it that police say crossed the line.

    He got an AK-47 assault rifle, pulled the trigger and he ended up in jail, reports CBS 2’s Pablo Guzman.

    George Grier said he had to use his rifle on Sunday night to stop what he thought was going to be an invasion of his Uniondale home by a gang he thought might have been the vicious “MS-13.” He said the whole deal happened as he was about to drive his cousin home.

    “I went around and went into the house, ran upstairs and told my wife to call the police. I get the gun and I go outside and I come into the doorway and now, by this time, they are in the driveway, back here near the house. I tell them, you know, ‘Can you please leave?’ Grier said.

    Grier said the five men dared him to use the gun; and that their shouts brought another larger group of gang members in front of his house.

    “He starts threatening my family, my life. ‘Oh you’re dead. I’m gonna kill your family and your babies. You’re dead.’ So when he says that, 20 others guys come rushing around the corner. And so I fired four warning shots into the grass,” Grier said.

    Grier was later arrested. John Lewis is Grier’s attorney.

    “What he’s initially charged with – A D felony reckless endangerment — requires a depraved indifference to human life, creating a risk that someone’s going to die. Shooting into a lawn doesn’t create a risk of anybody dying,” Lewis said.

    Grier said he knew Nassau County Police employ the hi-tech “ShotSpotter” technology in his area and that the shooting would bring police in minutes. Cops told Guzman he was very cooperative.

    Grier also said he was afraid the gang outside his house was the dreaded MS-13. And Nassau County Police Lt. Andrew Mulraine, head of the gang unit, said MS-13 has 2,000 members in the county.

    “They’re probably the most organized. They almost have a military hierarchy within the gang, so they are the most organized gang we encounter on a daily basis,” Mulraine said.

    You may think a person has the right to defend their home. But the law says you can only use physical force to deter physical force. Grier said he never saw anyone pull out a gun, so a court would have to decide on firing the gun.

    Police determined Grier had the gun legally. He has no criminal record. And so he was not charged for the weapon.

    That ShotSpotter technology pinpoints where a gun has been fired within 35 feet. Police said it also detected two other shootings in nearby Roosevelt that night.

    Long Island Man Arrested For Defending Home With AK-47 « CBS New York- News, Sports, Weather, Traffic and the Best of NY
     
  2. phathom

    phathom Vancouver, WA Member

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    Mistakes he made that would have saved him this.
    1:Going outside with the gun, this just antagonized them more than if he would have just called the police, and had the gun ready but waited inside.
    2:Firing warning shots into the ground. He discharged a firearm in public (city limits, I'm guessing) and threatened them that he would shoot them. According to the story, they were not making threats to him before he came out with the gun.
    3:George Grier said he had to use his rifle on Sunday night to stop what he thought was going to be an invasion of his Uniondale home by a gang he thought might have been the vicious “MS-13.”
    So it wasn't an invasion, just a bunch of guys outside, sure it's not comfortable and can be menacing, but that's when you call the police to get them out of there and ready yourself if they do try breaking in to take action.

    Basically, if he would have stayed inside with the gun ready and just waited for police, they would be going to jail (if a crime was committed) not him, for trying to play Rambo in his front yard. And if they did break in, being multiples, armed or not they would definitely be placing his family in immediate danger, in that case light em up and do what you got to do.

    I think he had good intentions, but how he handled it is what landed him in trouble.
    You don't pull a gun out to scare someone, you pull a gun out to kill someone. If you aren't ready to do that, don't pull it, it just antagonizes them more and adds to the situation. Good people who don't get that and still own/carry a gun get thrown in jail all the time for "warning shots".

    Also another point. He owned his AK-47 legally, being a semi-automatic model,IT IS NOT AN ASSAULT RIFLE BECAUSE IT IS NOT SELECT FIRE!
     
  3. MarkSBG

    MarkSBG Beaverton Oregon Well-Known Member

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  4. phathom

    phathom Vancouver, WA Member

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    Very good point Mark. I have watched that video before and it is completely right.
    "Anything you say, can and will be used against you in a court of law."
    Not "Can and will be used for you in a court of law."
    Also it could be more accurately reworded to
    "Anything you say, can and will be used against you, depending on how the officer heard it, remembers it, interprets it, and states that is what you said in a court of law."

    Had the man declined to talk to them and called his lawyer instead, he could still be walking around outside of bars right now.
     
  5. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    i know everyone likes to make this argument, but from a legal standpoint, having 3 evil features makes it an "assault rifle," under federal definition. having select-fire would make it a "machinegun" under the federal definition. most, if not all, states also accept these definitions.

    calling them "assault rifles" is about as sensational as calling a cordless screw gun an "assault drill" because it's got a drop-bottom battery. however, it's not incorrect.
     
  6. MarkSBG

    MarkSBG Beaverton Oregon Well-Known Member

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    +1

    Assault is a verb, not an adjective.
     
  7. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    It's a noun, too:

    as·sault (-sôlt)
    n.
    1. A violent physical or verbal attack.
    2.
    a. A military attack, such as one launched against a fortified area or place.


    An assault rifle is a rifle intended to be used in an assault (n.), not an assaultive (adj.) rifle.
     
  8. phathom

    phathom Vancouver, WA Member

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    3 evil features only applying to those Brady loving states that were lobbied into keeping the assault weapons ban that the rest of the country gave the finger to.
     
  9. Karma

    Karma the woods in Oregon Active Member

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    I have a crazy idea. What don't they actually do something about the gang, instead of the guy that is scared for his families safety? That is the problem. I think things need to go back to the way they were at one time, and still are in some area's of the country. You don't screw around on someones property unless you are invited onto their property.
     
  10. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    we're talking about the federal definitions of terms. an assault rifle is any centerfire weapon with 3 or more evil features- period. whether or not that means anything extra in your state is up to the state, but the term still applies. in oregon, having an "assault rifle" isn't illegal. there are no additional restrictions that apply- but the federal definition applies. and if the federal government ever institutes another "assault weapons ban," your "assault rifles" will be banned- because they're "assault weapons."

    i'm playing devil's advocate, but only a little: it's quite possible this dude with the AK was acting more on bravado than fear. its quite possible that his intent in bringing out the weapon was to induce gratuitous fear in the hearts of the "gang members," and when they weren't sufficiently scared, his pride got the better of him and he discharged a few rounds.

    wounded pride is not justification for discharging in prohibited areas, under the law.
     
  11. Karma

    Karma the woods in Oregon Active Member

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    Yeah, that is a possibility. He could have been trying to put fear in the heart of the large number of gang members. It would seem likely to me that he was operating out of fear on his side. I know people who live in fear constantly because they live in areas that have a high population of gangs.

    The people that I know who live in those areas are scared to death constantly, and don't enjoy a very good quality of life. I think that is horrible. If there is a group of people that constantly stike fear in the heart of the people around them and cause problems, I think the people should be able to deal with that threat accordingly.

    I do not condone shooting randomly inside city limits. He shouldn't have shot unless he was in immediate danger, and then they shouldn't have been warning shots at all.
     
  12. 56kninja

    56kninja Portland Member

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    Why in gods name would you go outside in a 5v1 fight. If you think they are a violent street gang, don't you assume they are also armed?

    Apparently this man never saw 300.
     
  13. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
     
  14. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    So if 5 guys are messing around with your stuff in your yard, back of your truck, your detached garage, your shop, your kids bicycles, YOUR STUFF ...you just hide inside your house and do what pray?

    That is not freedom.
     
  15. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    You think a Cop or a Military guy would just hide? No way! They would tell those guys they better leave NOW! Or the Cop might just come out yelling orders and then start shooting... But they wouldn't just let the poor little gang of bad guys just do whatever they wanted on their property!

    But arent we told that as long as a gang/bad guy isnt close enough to attack us, then we are not suposed to do anything. But if they do come close enough to attack us we should ask the gang/or bad guy for a time out so we can go inside and get our gun. Because if we came outside with his gun in the first place it would be brandishing. And we dont want to scare the bad guy.

    Gotta give them bad guys a chance to hurt us dumb worthless citizens first before we can fight back. They have rights too ya know. Especially over the law abidding citizens.
     
  16. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    No! More Men need to act like Men..The Main story of 300 is being a MAN!

    The wimp, coward, gutless..hide.

    The MAN goes outside and asks what the 5 guys want. And tell them to leave if they are up to no good. And then defend himself, his family and friends and his property if necessary.

    That is what a real man does. I think the United States Men forgot how to be a man. Not a vigilante, but a MAN!
     
  17. Taurus 617 CCW

    Taurus 617 CCW Northern Idaho Member

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    That would not have had the same outcome in Texas! I would definitely call 20 on one a disparity of force. I believe that with those numbers and one of them saying, "I’m gonna kill your family and your babies. You’re dead.’" he had a green light in most states (except N.Y.).
     
  18. Mitchell

    Mitchell Washington County OR Member

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    Perhaps in Texas, but I'm not sure about most other states. In Oregon, for example, you need motive, means and opportunity to be present simultaneously before you're legally justified in using deadly force. The gang-banger wasn't advancing toward the man, his house,or family.

    What really bothers me is that the man-with-a-gun was arrested, while the gang banger gets away with a death threat?
     
  19. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    chillin on his front porch with the rifle, while waiting for police to arrive, probably would have been fine. of course, he would have been drawn on, proned out, and stomped on when police got there, but he probably wouldn't have faced any charges so long as he didn't do anything stupid.

    it was the discharging of "warning shots" in an urban area that got him into trouble- don't forget that little important part.
     
  20. Karma

    Karma the woods in Oregon Active Member

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    I will tell you, something needs to be done about these gangs. There were multiple gang members at this guy's place. That is enough for me to assume that they are up to no good. The gang members also threatened his families life.

    I think our self defence laws need to be slacked off a lot! There are a lot of people out there who walk around and stomp on people because they know that most law abiding citizens won't fight back. That is b.s. and I guarantee we would have a much more polite society if that changed.