Discussion in 'Outdoor Shooting Areas' started by YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER, Apr 19, 2014.
I think a big part is because they don't hear from us. All they see is the garbage and that's what they think the majority of target shooters do. Other groups are actively involved with Forest management and planning. They encourage groups to get involved and they listen to their recommendations. They say more trails, which lead to closing more target shooting sites, and since no one speaks for the recreational target shooting community, we get shut down. If we were involved in that process, I think they would consider our point of view. I'm sure it would lead to fewer closures and opening new ones.
In Washington, we just lost several spots, on Larch Mntn in Clark Co, due to the lack of participation from the firearms community. Trail bikes, ATV's and hikers won a bunch of new trails and several shooting areas will be closing down. Great for them. They saw the value, got involved and their voices were heard. They win. We lose.
the reason places get closed down is the trash and vandalism left behind.
trash: targets, glass, blasted clay pigions, garbage...
Vandalism: shot up trees.
Noticed the "Road Closed" sign there while passing by to other shooting sites this week. Private efforts at cleaning up some of these spots is futile. The "mini pit" at the top of the hill had shot-up appliances in it a few weeks back. This one spot on Storey Burn has trees shot up and shot down.
Logging practices are an entirely different subject, there really isn't a comparison. I agree about the environmental impact of logging, but I live in a house made of wood. The solution to that is another subject but we need the timber industry. I don't "need" to target shoot for recreation in the forest, I "could" go to a range.... hopefully in the future I wont be forced to by law because above all, there is no reason not to pick up our own shooting trash and shoot respectably and leave no trace. I do it all the time.
edit to add...
trash: targets, glass, blasted clay pigeons, garbage...
Vandalism: shot up trees, campgrounds, campsites, forest road signs, outhouses, road gates....
Without that there 'a logging, You wouldn't have anywhere to shoot either. If you do a lot of shooting at different locations surely some if not all your targets are in older cuts. otherwise it is dang hard to come up with long shooting ranges, Ever try finding a 1k range in national forest?
All that private land is there and (some) still accessible to us shooters because of the trees and tree harvest/reproduction, we need logging. It does grow back.
I have been watching the trend of "woods" closures happening my whole life, People in general are abusive slobs. We are going onto private land after all (easily forgotten) and you know after a while wouldn't you be inclined to lock your gate if people were dumping garbage in your yard?
It sucks, yes! But I do see the reason it happens. I am one that doesn't like snitches in general but people dumping in the woods fires me up! I will do it without hesitation. Game cameras are great for problem areas.
Wait until you find travel management areas, No dumping or abuse related closures, No gates or tank traps just areas chosen by the gubberment you cant drive in to (sometimes without signage). If you find yourself in there even inadvertently you will take home a huge fine to mama and potentially can loose guns and vehicle.
This is also the first I have heard of clay pigeons being any kind of problem.
Im honestly considering warning fellow shooters as I pass them whilr ride up to my spot that Ill be reporting liscense plate numbers if their shooting area isnt clean (littering) when I come back down and that I work with the forestry service.. Which wouldnt be a total fabrication..
But perhaps in a nicer way.
Many have said that could prove to be dangerous, but come on.. Would someone really shoot another over that.. If they do, they're in for a world of hurt.
The other possibility is, is it fair? Perhaps all the hauls arent thiers.. But come one, you can tell the fresh from the old.. The only problem cases are the aluminum/nickel and .22's, To which not many folks are shooting .22 these days.
Some, but not as much.
Next, large debris.. Perhaps it isnt theirs and their vehicle wouldnt fit it.. Well, IMO they shouldnt be shooting at it either.. I for one pack up what I can, if there is something there I didnt bring and its far too big to drag off, I dont shoot at it. Shooting at a piece of trash left behind makes it YOUR target.
The other side of the coin.. Do we really want to get leos and other gov agencies involved and poking around our shooting spots?
Actually it might not be so easy to tell. So if I pull up and decide to use that spot thats already trashed would I get reported? Last time I went I used a spot that the trash was really fresh and I wasnt prepared to clean it all up. I took all the carboard boxes left behind to recycle but that was all I could do. A month earlier that spot was cleaned up by some folks and was nice to shoot at.
I agree with this.
see the first photo that Lone Gunman put in post #5. Those orange pigeons are near impractical to clean up piece by piece and are really unsightly especially to other forest users.... which are the ones that protest and get places shut down.
The clay pigeons are an eyesore. And are technically trash that is packed in but not packed out.
Loggers do more damage, but that damage is acceptable considering the social and economic good it does. There really is no good in shooting down trees. And it reflects badly on the shooters as a whole (many of whom are not slobs). Stray bullets left in trees could also pose a safety hazard to chainsaws users.
The trash left behind at a pro sporting event or concert is cleaned up afterward, usually by someone paid to do so. Doubt they have to pick up sheets of plywood and shot-up TVs.
Could be budget (sequestration) impact on maintenance compared to past years -
the biggest thing i see is shotgun plastic. brass degrades fairly quickly. i have even seen methheads out picking up brass to scrap. but the plastic shotgun shells are insane. littered everywhere. clean your crap up. i would love to follow someone home after they left theirs there and just dump it all plus some all over their house and lawn.
I'm absolutely confused here. Are you talking about BLM/National forest shooting areas or ones that get logged? Two totally different things.
If you are shooting where the "infinitely" earth destroying loggers practice there re-forestation and clear cuts, That is PRIVATE land, You have no tax link or investment. Your simply shooting while on someone else's land as a guest.
Government dictated lands wont (almost never) yield a shooting place for extended ranges. It is not there right to close off OUR lands nor is it there responsibility to clean up the slobs messes.
As far as the orange biodegradable tidbits leftover from shooting clays, I have no offerings. I have never let them bother me.
If there is less money all around, compared to pre-sequestration times, that could partly explain what we're seeing.
Perhaps we could each chip in a bit of cash to a small NWFA fund to hire a few people for clean up at the major shooting spots at regular intervals? Anybody with a truck, friends and some spare time? 1x per week? 2x a month? 1x a month?
Even though most of us pick up our own trash, the ones who don't make the rest of us look bad.
I would like to see the few shooting that we have remain open.
Leave no trace usually is good but people are lazy pigs who for some reason seem to have the notion some one should pick up after them. I would blame Agenda 21 for wildland closures.
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