Initiative to repeal 594?

[etrain16]

I get what you're saying but we fought 594 HARD and had our rear ends handed to us. Sadly the only way a new initiative would work is when they try and make an example out of someone for simply letting someone else shoot their gun and it didn't meet one of their exemptions. A big part of our problem is background checks are supported by a majority of gun owners and those that voted for this piece of trash either A) wasn't paying attention and just read the short explanation on the ballot and thought it sounded fine and didn't think anything of the transfer part or B) didn't believe everyone who was trying to explain how bad 594 was, they probably chalked it up to hysteria from the stereotypical NRA member. Having someone be prosecuted for what we were trying to warn everyone about would be a giant wake-up call IF it got any media attention.

594 will have to first be fought in court. There are many aspects of 594 that do not meet the one subject rule and a chunk of that is from things 594 inadvertently does. I have ideas that I'm sure have probably been thought of but just in case they haven't I'm going to send an email to Alan Gotlieb but I need a bit of time to lay out my thoughts in a way that makes sense and to also research the specific RCW's that 594 is inadvertently changing. I don't want to lay out out on a public forum where the other side may see it and have more time to prepare a legal defense against it.

If fighting it on court fails we need to try and get the bad parts changed by the legislature. This will be hard since it takes 2/3rds majority. SAF or CCRKB is planning on hiring a lobbyist but we will ALL need to also send our reps an email and call them expressing our concerns and wishes for this to have any chance at working. We ALL also need to show up at the rally in Olympia so they know there are a lot of us upset. We NEED THOUSANDS, more than we had at the first rally after Sandy Hook. We ALL need to take the energy we had behind fighting 594 and multiply it ten fold. We need to show them that they have truly stirred a hornets nest and we are not going down without a fight and any future regulations are going to be met with far more resistance than we showed with 594.

So what do we want fixed with 594? Preferably the whole transfers part needs to be tossed but it's doubtful that will happen. Hopefully they would be ok with changing transfer to exchange for other valuables or barters since their claim is that is what they were trying to address but again I doubt that will happen so more realistically here are the parts I think we need to have changed

1. The exemptions for family should apply to all situations so they should simply strike out "that is a bona fide gift"

2. The range exemption should have the language about the firearms remaining at the range at all times struck out and instead add WHILE like the exemption for hunting to make it clear that while you're there you can do transfers as long as you keep your gun after you're done (trying to avoid a loophole where people just go to a range to sell guns). This exemption also needs to have language like other RCWs that says "or anywhere that is legal to discharge a firearm" then it would extend to shooting in the woods and private property

3. The exemptions for minors should have the part about being the presence of an adult only apply if you're under 14 to reflect current WA possession laws

4. They need to add an exemption for transfers if you remain in the other persons presence all times (if they do this they could actually just get rid of the range exemption all together)

5. They need to add an exemption for a period of time like 30 days if it's someone you know

6. They need to strike out the part in the law enforcement exemption that limits it to just when they are on duty. Seriously, you think a cop needs to go through a background check?

7. They absolutely need an exemption for CPLs

8. They really need to remove the reporting piece of the inheritance provision

9. They need to remove the part that gives the DOL authority to make their own rules and most preferably remove the illegal state registry of pistols

Anything I miss?

how many states will have to fall to draconian initiatives for you to change your mind?

pick and choose your battles. fight those you can win. throwing everything, burning all your money and resources on an unwinnable battle, what does that accomplish?

start thinking tactically. bloomberg is pushing this on a campaign of 'responsiblity' and 'saving lives'. gun owners need to hijack that message to our own ends.

also, he's targeting his message at women. PEW research tells us that most americans are unaware that violent crime and gun violence is dropping and is at all time historic low. the research also shows that women by far hold this view vs men. we need to get our message to that audience.

I don't disagree with either of you on most of your points. My point originally was this - just because Bloomie managed to buy and win one, doesn't mean this has to become the wave of the future. How many states have to fall? That depends, how many states are going to sit their butts at home instead of voting to protect their rights? And what about the courts and the amendments - what if that doesn't work because there isn't enough support in the state legislature? For the common man, the petition process is about the best option we may have. It may not be the first, and it may not be the best, but it's an option.

What really gets me is anyone coming across with a defeatist attitude. It's that attitude that prevents more people from getting out and becoming active. Convince enough folks that we've 'already lost', and people have a tendency to give up.

I'd simply like to hear more optimism coming from our side. Okay, 594 passed and WA gun owners lost. It's a battle, not the war. The pro-gun folks need to be rallied and energized in preparation for the next battle, whatever and however that may be.

My biggest hope in this is that people that were apathetic to this last election will get a big wakeup call, and they'll not fail to take action in the future.

 

[usagi]

being realistic is defeatist? i'm offering opinions how to beat this initiative strategy.

you are going to learn real quick, you can't fight these initiatives head on, against infinitely deep pockets.

we haven't lost. we just need to change tactics. digging your heels in and taking a juggernaut head on is not going to produce the desired results.

guerilla warfare is the new tactic.

the next battle is likely to be mandatory storage.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

I think the best strategy is to fight based on the misleading ballot title and 18 pages that go far beyond what the people thought they were voting for. Multiple topics on one initiative.

This is so stupid. As an Oregon and Utah CHL holder I can concealed carry to a rental range in Washington, shoot my own pistol, but if I want to rent one of the ranges I have to have pay for a NICS and wait.

 

[Bazooka Joe]

This is so stupid. As an Oregon and Utah CHL holder I can concealed carry to a rental range in Washington, shoot my own pistol, but if I want to rent one of the ranges I have to have pay for a NICS and wait.

Nick, it looks like I was incorrect in an earlier post. There is an exemption "if the temporary transfer occurs, and the firearm is kept at all times, at an established shooting range authorized by the governing body of the jurisdiction in which such range is located." So the only question there should be what it means for the range to be "authorized."

 

[mjbskwim]

It wasn't bloomys money,it was gates and allen the 2 biggest influences in the Puget sound.
As soon as they put money into it the vote was done
They are the left's heros and the left did what they were told to do.
So unless you are going to change THEE ENTIRE DEMOGRAPHIC of the Puget Sound region
THIS WILL NOT BE VOTED DOWN......with or without bloombutte
Remember,these were people that went out and got their CCPs and bought guns at the gunshows after Sandy Hook went off,
Then they turned around and bubblegumED themselves and the rest of us

 

[deen_ad]

<- Why there aren't any school shootings in Israel!
Teacher with long gun slung over her shoulder!!!

Shouldn't even have been certified by the Elections Dept to be on the ballot! A referendum can only contain one thing and 594 is 18 PAGES long and contains dozens of provisions and definitions. That alone should do it in!

Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
NRA Golden Eagle member
Defender of Freedom Award
WAC Member
"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"

 

[Lilhigbee]

Back to the petition; The MoveOn website says the petition has been taken down.

 

[hkacres]

I wonder why the petition was taken down. It had over 15000 signatures?

 

[Bazooka Joe]

I wonder why the petition was taken down. It had over 15000 signatures?

Probably because it didn't reflect MoveOn's "progressive values."

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

When an initiative passes with as huge a margin as this one did, the chance of repealing it is almost non-existent. Sadly, I knew from the day this got proposed it would pass. Unfortunately the right helped it pass. They have created the notion that it is okay to be asked for papers to vote, so why wouldn't it be okay if you are buying a firearm?

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

When an initiative passes with as huge a margin as this one did, the chance of repealing it is almost non-existent. Sadly, I knew from the day this got proposed it would pass. Unfortunately the right helped it pass. They have created the notion that it is okay to be asked for papers to vote, so why wouldn't it be okay if you are buying a firearm?

Why don't you and HossUSMC do a video where you shoot each others guns and keep a "Felony" tally running in the corner of the screen? But hurry up, you have until December 4th before they get to slap the cuffs on.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Why don't you and HossUSMC do a video where you shoot each others guns and keep a "Felony" tally running in the corner of the screen? But hurry up, you have until December 4th before they get to slap the cuffs on.

We have actually discussed it. Need to see if he is going to be in the area. If he isn't, I am going to look for a volunteer.

 

[Mr. Ben]

I get what you're saying but we fought 594 HARD and had our rear ends handed to us. Sadly the only way a new initiative would work is when they try and make an example out of someone for simply letting someone else shoot their gun and it didn't meet one of their exemptions. A big part of our problem is background checks are supported by a majority of gun owners and those that voted for this piece of trash either A) wasn't paying attention and just read the short explanation on the ballot and thought it sounded fine and didn't think anything of the transfer part or B) didn't believe everyone who was trying to explain how bad 594 was, they probably chalked it up to hysteria from the stereotypical NRA member. Having someone be prosecuted for what we were trying to warn everyone about would be a giant wake-up call IF it got any media attention.

594 will have to first be fought in court. There are many aspects of 594 that do not meet the one subject rule and a chunk of that is from things 594 inadvertently does. I have ideas that I'm sure have probably been thought of but just in case they haven't I'm going to send an email to Alan Gotlieb but I need a bit of time to lay out my thoughts in a way that makes sense and to also research the specific RCW's that 594 is inadvertently changing. I don't want to lay out out on a public forum where the other side may see it and have more time to prepare a legal defense against it.

If fighting it on court fails we need to try and get the bad parts changed by the legislature. This will be hard since it takes 2/3rds majority. SAF or CCRKB is planning on hiring a lobbyist but we will ALL need to also send our reps an email and call them expressing our concerns and wishes for this to have any chance at working. We ALL also need to show up at the rally in Olympia so they know there are a lot of us upset. We NEED THOUSANDS, more than we had at the first rally after Sandy Hook. We ALL need to take the energy we had behind fighting 594 and multiply it ten fold. We need to show them that they have truly stirred a hornets nest and we are not going down without a fight and any future regulations are going to be met with far more resistance than we showed with 594.

So what do we want fixed with 594? Preferably the whole transfers part needs to be tossed but it's doubtful that will happen. Hopefully they would be ok with changing transfer to exchange for other valuables or barters since their claim is that is what they were trying to address but again I doubt that will happen so more realistically here are the parts I think we need to have changed

1. The exemptions for family should apply to all situations so they should simply strike out "that is a bona fide gift"

2. The range exemption should have the language about the firearms remaining at the range at all times struck out and instead add WHILE like the exemption for hunting to make it clear that while you're there you can do transfers as long as you keep your gun after you're done (trying to avoid a loophole where people just go to a range to sell guns). This exemption also needs to have language like other RCWs that says "or anywhere that is legal to discharge a firearm" then it would extend to shooting in the woods and private property

3. The exemptions for minors should have the part about being the presence of an adult only apply if you're under 14 to reflect current WA possession laws

4. They need to add an exemption for transfers if you remain in the other persons presence all times (if they do this they could actually just get rid of the range exemption all together)

5. They need to add an exemption for a period of time like 30 days if it's someone you know

6. They need to strike out the part in the law enforcement exemption that limits it to just when they are on duty. Seriously, you think a cop needs to go through a background check?

7. They absolutely need an exemption for CPLs

8. They really need to remove the reporting piece of the inheritance provision

9. They need to remove the part that gives the DOL authority to make their own rules and most preferably remove the illegal state registry of pistols

Anything I miss?

Pretty darn good list!

Only thing I'd add is "Remove the whole damn 18 page initiative", but that just will not happen.

 

[ozmosis]

I wonder why the petition was taken down. It had over 15000 signatures?

Its a Liberal slanted venue- as soon as they saw that people were standing up for there rights they took it down.

 

[usagi]

We have actually discussed it. Need to see if he is going to be in the area. If he isn't, I am going to look for a volunteer.

talk to your state rep and request that they get a WA AG opinion on whether handing a gun to someone is a transfer under 594 or not.

<broken link removed>

i wouldn't post the video until you have that opinion. you don't want to end up looking silly if the WA AG rules it is not a transfer.

shoot the video, wait for the WA AG opinion. then post. the video will have far more impact if the WA AG rules it IS a transfer. and it will save your butt from embarassment if he rules it isn't.

 

[Alfonse]

I think initiative 591 was the wrong way to fight 594. It caused confusion and diluted the focus. Tom Steyer wasn't able to buy anything for all his money. Every candidate he supported got beat.

An initiative to repeal, or modify, I-594 could pass, if it was clear and made sense. It isn't about the money, it is about the message.

 

[Lilhigbee]

So how many members of this forum will completely boycott the Seahawks?? Some of the money Paul Allen put into this came from you, the fans of his team. I have to believe that a significant number of the people at the games are gun owners. All of them should stay home for a season. Or better yet, forever. Also, no watching them on TV so the demographics for their commercials drops, no MacDonald's whatever meals, no window stickers, nothing. Do not finance your enemies. likewise my next computer will probably be a MAC. To hell with Gates and Microsoft too.

 

[usagi]

boycotts are mental masturabation that won't accomplish anything.

I think initiative 591 was the wrong way to fight 594. It caused confusion and diluted the focus. Tom Steyer wasn't able to buy anything for all his money. Every candidate he supported got beat.

An initiative to repeal, or modify, I-594 could pass, if it was clear and made sense. It isn't about the money, it is about the message.

for any initiative to repeal or modify i-594, you will have to have a COMPELLING message. and remember you'll be fighting bloomberg again.

you need to have an initiative that bloomberg will look silly arguing against. also remember you'll be up against a hostile AG and a hostile press.

 

[Redcap]

So how many members of this forum will completely boycott the Seahawks?? Some of the money Paul Allen put into this came from you, the fans of his team. I have to believe that a significant number of the people at the games are gun owners. All of them should stay home for a season. Or better yet, forever. Also, no watching them on TV so the demographics for their commercials drops, no MacDonald's whatever meals, no window stickers, nothing. Do not finance your enemies. likewise my next computer will probably be a MAC. To hell with Gates and Microsoft too.

Cutting off your nose to spite your face?

 

[Scarint]

We have actually discussed it. Need to see if he is going to be in the area. If he isn't, I am going to look for a volunteer.

If you're in the Tri-Cities area, I'm game. Or Moses Lake. Or Ellensburg.