How the downfall of net neutrality will effect the second amendment

[slimmer13]

The private sector does everything better, cheaper, and more efficiently than the government every time. If an ISP is filtering content, stop using them. And someone else will step in because it makes business sense.

Personally, I would be MUCH more worried about the state filtering content than private entiries.

 

[Stomper]

I'm amazed how people don't "trust" capitalism, but have no issues with government run "crony-capitalism" where corrupt politicians "pick and choose" the "winners" based on ideological compliance and the size of campaign donations.... because of Hillary I can't find a SINGLE place to by me some uranium for the special "project" I've been working on!

 

[Stomper]

And I am tired of individuals who tell others what they should be doing and making statements that others do not know what they are talking about. When we are paying higher rates and they are even more limiting to content that what we have access to now will you still stand by your position. I see this like gun control you don't wait till it happens to do something about it.

Hmmmmm.... must be no mirrors in the house, yeah?

 

[Jamie6.5]

And I am tired of individuals who tell others what they should be doing and making statements that others do not know what they are talking about. When we are paying higher rates and they are even more limiting to content that what we have access to now will you still stand by your position. I see this like gun control you don't wait till it happens to do something about it.

I'm not telling you what you should be doing. I'm telling you that you made a choice in the purchase of your home that you have to live with. And that it's not right for you to insist we all live with an administrative rule we don't like, and that silences our voices, so that you can feel more secure after making a poor choice about where to live based on how you do your job.
And I'm also reminding you that there are other ways to gain internet access options. Like renting an office somewhere that offers more communication options.

But I'm also trying to remind you that you're worrying about something that hasn't happened, and that nobody has tried to make happen, and by most economic indicators, won't happen.

 

[JRuby]

Hmmmmm.... must be no mirrors in the house, yeah?

I am not at home my cube doesn't have one built in.

A lesson in business class was that many times a company breaks law knowing full well it will be fined but the fine in most cases is cheaper than doing it right a perfect example was union carbide in India. Standards are there for a reason.

 

[Stomper]

I am not at home my cube doesn't have one built in.

A lesson in business class was that many times a company breaks law knowing full well it will be fined but the fine in most cases is cheaper than doing it right a perfect example was union carbide in India. Standards are there for a reason.

You must be a master yoga instructor, because I have never seen anybody stretch two completely different issues and tie them together like that! LOL

 

[mkwerx]

Except that it has and is happening in other countries which do not treat internet service providers as utilities. Fast lanes and access packages are being sold in areas where regulations were removed and that protects consumers how? Data is data, but ISPs are seeing an extra revenue stream charging for "premium content access" to access sites like Netflix, Facebook, etc.

Why should a content host or consumer have to pay more for ine type of data than another because its more popular? Bits are bits. If you wish to go back to a by the byte pricing scheme that is one thing but being OK with ISPs putting up paywalls for accessing certain types of content is not something I agree with. I do not trust either corporations or governments to have my best interests in mind - both want more of my money to provide minimum service levels. But in this case I trust ISPs less because they have been shown already in other places to do exactly what is being predicted here.

If Joe wants to put NWFA behind a paywall that is one thing, but it is another for Verizon to decide that because NWFA is in my top 3 most visited sites I need to pay more to access it.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Except that it has and is happening in other countries which do not treat internet service providers as utilities. Fast lanes and access packages are being sold in areas where regulations were removed and that protects consumers how? Data is data, but ISPs are seeing an extra revenue stream charging for "premium content access" to access sites like Netflix, Facebook, etc.

Why should a content host or consumer have to pay more for ine type of data than another because its more popular? Bits are bits. If you wish to go back to a by the byte pricing scheme that is one thing but being OK with ISPs putting up paywalls for accessing certain types of content is not something I agree with. I do not trust either corporations or governments to have my best interests in mind - both want more of my money to provide minimum service levels. But in this case I trust ISPs less because they have been shown already in other places to do exactly what is being predicted here.

If Joe wants to put NWFA behind a paywall that is one thing, but it is another for Verizon to decide that because NWFA is in my top 3 most visited sites I need to pay more to access it.

Bits are not bits, necessarily.
Streaming services occupy a huge amount of hardware resources.

Again, this is closely akin to roads and trucks and freight.
I'm currently using the equivalent of the passenger car two lane road when I'm on a few forums and participating in conversations like his one.
People with 3 TVs that stream content for their entertainment all evening are using the equivalent of a fully loaded double trailer Semi-truck in the HOV lane.
Every state in the union slaps a premium on heavy-haul vehicles in terms of permits and registration.
Oversized loads pay additional permit fees.

It comes down to how much of the finite resource do you want to use.
And why should everyone, even those that don't use near as much of the resource, pay for your use of it?

 

[mkwerx]

They are not. Companies like Netflix have to pay their own ISPs - if the ISP wants to negotiate higher rates with them or charge more for business access or on a per byte basis, fine.

Google and netflix etc pay their ISP, we pay ours. The ISPs are the ones with the lion share of cash directed at them for access. What deregulating ISPs does is give them more power to screw consumers.

The Internet is a modern utility and should be treated as such, meaning subject to *some* regulation to ensure users are given vasic protections and access. In the same vein as you can live without broadband, you can live without electricity from your power company (a monopoly) or water/sewer (another monopoly) or trash service (another monopoly) - but that type of life is fringe and you give up a lot to live that way. And doing almost any type of business today requires internet access - even my 6 year old requires it as public schools are now pushing some homework to cloud based solutions. He had web based homework last year as a kindergartener.

To say content hosts are subsidized is a lie. They pay, and their customers pay. There should not be price premiums based on content type. If you want to go back to the byte based pricing scheme then fine, but not to content based pricing.

 

[Jamie6.5]

They are not. Companies like Netflix have to pay their own ISPs - if the ISP wants to negotiate higher rates with them or charge more for business access or on a per byte basis, fine.

Google and netflix etc pay their ISP, we pay ours. The ISPs are the ones with the lion share of cash directed at them for access. What deregulating ISPs does is give them more power to screw consumers.

The Internet is a modern utility and should be treated as such, meaning subject to *some* regulation to ensure users are given vasic protections and access. In the same vein as you can live without broadband, you can live without electricity from your power company (a monopoly) or water/sewer (another monopoly) or trash service (another monopoly) - but that type of life is fringe and you give up a lot to live that way. And doing almost any type of business today requires internet access - even my 6 year old requires it as public schools are now pushing some homework to cloud based solutions. He had web based homework last year as a kindergartener.

To say content hosts are subsidized is a lie. They pay, and their customers pay. There should not be price premiums based on content type. If you want to go back to the byte based pricing scheme then fine, but not to content based pricing.

Okay, so you say it's a utility, like water/sewer, garbage, and electricity.

If I want a 2" commercial service water supply and meter I will pay more than I do for my home meter with the 3/4" fittings. My monthly minimum will be higher.
If I want my garbage hauled out of here in a dumpster instead of a 35 gal can, it will cost more.
and if I want 440v power I will pay the power company a higher basic subscription rate than I will for single phase 220v.

Thank you for making my point.
It's not just about the byte/gallon/pound of garbage or KWhr.
It's also about the level of service you're requiring each month, and the quality of that service.

 

[Heywood]

No, you live very near one of the fastest growing areas in the state. I live in a rural area and have exactly one choice of ISP, no cell phone coverage, two radio stations available and only in one area on my property. Believe it or not I'm less than 50mi from Portland. I and my neighbours within 5sq miles are all in the same boat; we're either slave to one ISP that already has poor practices(like overselling bandwidth and then slashing everyone's speed) or we do without. Not much of a choice there.

You do actually have access to satellite internet. Of which there are 3 different providers that operate in the entire continental us including all of Columbia county, So you obviously aren't looking very hard. Very ironic.
Also, crook county, until this last couple years has been the county with the highest unemployment in the state and withsome of the lowest household incomes as well. There were always multiple choices if people would only look.

 

[Heywood]

Okay, so you say it's a utility, like water/sewer, garbage, and electricity.

If I want a 2" commercial service water supply and meter I will pay more than I do for my home meter with the 3/4" fittings. My monthly minimum will be higher.
If I want my garbage hauled out of here in a dumpster instead of a 35 gal can, it will cost more.
and if I want 440v power I will pay the power company a higher basic subscription rate than I will for single phase 220v.

Thank you for making my point.
It's not just about the byte/gallon/pound of garbage or KWhr.
It's also about the level of service you're requiring each month, and the quality of that service.

Not to mention this one glaringly obvious fact.
How much compition do your local utilities have???
ZERO. you pay the rates they require for whatever service they are willing to provide. And you can not do a thing about it...

 

[JRuby]

You do actually have access to satellite internet. Of which there are 3 different providers that operate in the entire continental us including all of Columbia county, So you obviously aren't looking very hard. Very ironic.
Also, crook county, until this last couple years has been the county with the highest unemployment in the state and withsome of the lowest household incomes as well. There were always multiple choices if people would only look.

Most satellite services do mot support vpn"s. When I lived in Medford the satellite services were very poor at best. Better than nothing but not by much.

 

[rupey7]

All of the liberal news sites are exploding about the upcoming vote on net neutrality. Touted as the end of the internet as we know it, what effects could this have on our more gun friendly sites?

Look at it this way, Obama and the Dems wanted it, the Republicans and Trump don't want it. Which one of those two groups wanted to steal your gun rights? Wonder why there's nothing on the mainstream news positive about the repeal, because it doesn't fit in their view of a progressive society.
Everyone has an opinion that's mine. There's lots out there regarding net neutrality I've been reading it for the last 1-2 years. Progressives are in favor of it and lie about what will happen if it's repealed.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Look at it this way, Obama and the Dems wanted it, the Republicans and Trump don't want it. Which one of those two groups wanted to steal your gun rights? Wonder why there's nothing on the mainstream news positive about the repeal, because it doesn't fit in their view of a progressive society.
Everyone has an opinion that's mine. There's lots out there regarding net neutrality I've been reading it for the last 1-2 years. Progressives are in favor of it and lie about what will happen if it's repealed.

Yeabut JRuby doesn't have a vpn line at his farm.

 

[Reed]

What would happen to comcast if 10 million subscribers disconnected from the TV and took their kids camping, hiking, fishing and heaven forbid, shooting one summer?

In capitalism, the consumer controls the product.

 

[Ruger Rich]

Most all the technology companies have liberal owners, if it were me I would not morn if an internet EMP were to happen.
I would go back to the ways when the days were simple and all the social media was F2F or a phone call away.

"Most all technology companies have liberal owners", huh? They got that because they were free thinkers, not tied down to an ideology or the past. Wake up.

 

[mkwerx]

Not to mention this one glaringly obvious fact.
How much compition do your local utilities have???
ZERO. you pay the rates they require for whatever service they are willing to provide. And you can not do a thing about it...

And your local utilites have to get approvals for rate increases by state / local commissions.

Local telcos are utilities as well, and the most comparable to internet providers service wise and hardware wise.

And the comparison for stardard residential vs commercial water or power - if you want business class service of course you pay business class rates. Same with internet - Comcast charges more for business service than residential already.

This notion that businesses are somehow currently subsisized is flat wrong, and bits really are bits regardless if its a video stream, images, forums etc. The amount of data and frequency is different but bits are bits. And yes it may require more processor time - but that gets accounted for when figuring rates. If its not - it is not the consumer's fault.

And just because a democrat or republican comes up with an idea should not be a determining factor of the merits if the idea. Party line voting is flat retarded and one reason our country is as fubar as it is right now.

The bump stock ban was authored by republicans - was that a good piece of legislation? The '86 import ban was put in by Republicans - was that good? How about the patriot act?

Democrats can have good ideas and republicans can have crap ideas.

Going back to a by the byte pricing scheme would solve any issues in income inequality for the poor ISPs but they would hemmorage customers. So they push for deregulation so they can just upcharge customers for certain content or extort content hosts for fast lanes to their product. This will stiffle innovation and new services and products, if you are not a big player already you never will be.

 

[rupey7]

This is an interesting read and won't be found on CNN, MSNBC or the like. Again, everyone gets an opinion

Why Is The Media Smearing New FCC Chair Ajit Pai As The Enemy Of Net Neutrality?

 

[gozoner]

When we are no longer allowed to access websites like this one because Comcast has decided that guns are bad who will we blame then. To me I see this as just another sign of how gun friendly the 'Good ole party" is. Chasing the mighty dollar instead of doing what is right. Ending net nuetrallity is a form of censorship by those that provide access to the internet.

Won't we blame the Gov't for giving Comcast a monopoly in their areas of operation? Otherwise, you and I would chose between the numerous 'internet providers', competing for our business - by offering unfettered access.

"Net Neutrality" is a bandaid over the real problem, Gov't granted monopolies. In CA now, internet providers are regulated as utilities. Years ago I had a problem with a cable company and called my City Manager to complain - their answer: 'Call Sacramento'.