National How Should The 2A Community Reach Out To Middle (Undecided) Voters On Firearm Legislation?

[arakboss]

Question in title but I would add that I am looking for widespread and rapid ways to get the message out. The undecided voters are likely to be from the younger half of the population.

As for all these new gun owners think about one place almost all of them visit to acquire that first firearm.

Washington State residents are going to suffer first if we fail. Oregon residents will be next.

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[Andy54Hawken]

When discussing this matter :

Speak articulately...
Do not use terms like Fudd , Demorats , Liberal , Commie , etc.....
Do not attack others who feel / think differently....

Use and have on ready to hand out sheets with facts and figures to refute Anti Gun rhetoric...
Use accredited sources for the above....

Show pictures of you and others cleaning up outdoor shooting areas....

Explain that certain terms used to describe firearms and firearm owners , aren't all that accurate or even true.

Related to the above...
Ask why is it wrong to equate all within a certain group , as "bad" or dangerous , because of the actions of a few , who are in a particular group , in regards to religion or race , etc...
But that it is seeming okay to to so with firearm owners.

Point put that what is done to one Amendment , makes it easier to do to all the rest of the Amendments.

Andy

 

[JustSomeGuy]

When discussing this matter :

Speak articulately...
Do not use terms like Fudd , Demorats , Liberal , Commie , etc.....
Do not attack others who feel / think differently....

Use and have on ready to hand out sheets facts and figures to refute Anti Gun rhetoric...
Use accredited sources for the above....

Show pictures of you and others cleaning up outdoor shooting areas....

Explain that certain terms used to describe firearms and firearm owners , aren't all that accurate or even true.

Related to the above...
Ask why is it wrong to equate all within a certain group , as "bad" or dangerous , because of the actions of a few , who are in a particular group , in regards to religion or race , etc...
But that it is seeming okay to to so with firearm owners.

Point put that what is done to one Amendment , makes it easier to do all the rest of the Amendments.

Andy

DING DING DING WHOOOP WHOOOP...

We have a winner on the first response.

Well said Andy.

 

[JohnnyMac]

I always try to address the specific issue and throw some facts at the person I'm talking to. For instance the Assault Weapons Ban...I first ask how they feel about it then bring up facts like per the CDC, In 2019 less than 1% of murders in Wa state were committed with a long gun, much less an assault rifle. I bring up that over 65% of firearm deaths in Wa state are suicides so perhaps a bill addressing mental health is more appropriate. Or that the overwhelming majority of firearm murders in Wa state are drug or gang related so perhaps a bill to address drugs or gangs would be more appropriate. I feel like there are enough actual facts out there, that if brought up, can prove that these bills being introduced are simply virtue signals to make the elites feel better, but will have little to no effect on gun safety for the common citizen.

 

[Jay Walk]

There is no talking to these people.

How about we DO NOT COMPLY?

The whole country needs to refuse. They can't put us all in jail.

We have the numbers, not them.

It's like speeding on the highway, they have pretty much given up.

 

[Stomper]

Offer hookers….. money….. expensive cars….. an orgy on a Caribbean cruise….. and if that doesn't work, send in some goons to break bones.




OK, not really. @Andy54Hawken 's post hits it.

 

[JohnnyMac]

Offer hookers….. money….. expensive cars….. an orgy on a Caribbean cruise….. and if that doesn't work, send in some goons to break bones.




OK, not really. @Andy54Hawken 's post hits it.

I like your post better....

 

[Spitpatch]

I would only add that the approach to the discussion may be just as important as the discussion itself.

A rebuttal to something said (even if the rebuttal is accurate) is not the way to begin.

 

[WillametteWill]

There is no talking to these people.

How about we DO NOT COMPLY?

The whole country needs to refuse. They can't put us all in jail.

We have the numbers, not them.

It's like speeding on the highway, they have pretty much given up.

I completely agree that there is a group that has their mind made up and not worth engaging. It would be like one of them coming to us to discuss their "feelings" as to why we should not have guns.

The OP noted undecided or uninformed folks, and there are plenty of them. That is who we need to talk with. Start here, Women.

My wife (and I) work with various women's shooting groups and new shooters. Some are gun people, but many are just good folks who are now getting into firearms. They are fantastic at listening to reason, evaluating facts and also sharing this with others in their circles, which is very important. Many of them bring their non-shooting but open-minded friends to shoot with them, thus continuing the cycle. When you explain to them that the government is trying to ban the magazines for the new Glock they just purchased they get upset because they know there is no reason behind it.

This is HALF of the voting block.

Fact is, if we do not have women onboard with us, we do not have the numbers.

 

[Hueco]

I read the question as more asking about how to reach certain groups, not what to say to them.

To that, I say TikTok and YouTube Shorts. Put together compelling videos that refute a commonly held anti-2A belief in 60 seconds and do a series on them.

Send the series out to all the gun media to link back to and use in their own works.

 

[JohnnyMac]

I read the question as more asking about how to reach certain groups, not what to say to them.

To that, I say TikTok and YouTube Shorts. Put together compelling videos that refute a commonly held anti-2A belief in 60 seconds and do a series on them.

Send the series out to all the gun media to link back to and use in their own works.

Great idea @Hueco - As long as the big tech "fact checkers" don't shut them down, I think its a good place to spread the word.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

YouTube Shorts

If I am ever on You Tube...I will be sure to wear pants or jeans....

Not being the most tech savvy....what you say about You Tube , Tik Tok and like....as many folks use and enjoy said media.

I would suggest that if one does go this route..
Be sure to "act your age" and not try to be 'Hip"...And not use trendy phrases , etc...

Also be sure your "background area / scene " is free and clear of any potential hazards , or embarrassing items.
Andy

 

[arakboss]

I read the question as more asking about how to reach certain groups, not what to say to them.

To that, I say TikTok and YouTube Shorts. Put together compelling videos that refute a commonly held anti-2A belief in 60 seconds and do a series on them.

Send the series out to all the gun media to link back to and use in their own works.

Yes, this is what I was asking. We should look at this as an assignment or job we are being hired to do (for free). We can play the role of an advertising agency or public relations company and assume that the opposition of some firearm restricting legislation comes to us and says how can we get this "blank" message out to those who might be undecided on the issue.

I agree many minds on both sides are made up but there will be a chunk in the middle who will decide whether the legislation lives or dies. We will only have a very limited opportunity to reach these folks and they probably won't have strong opinions in either direction. We won't have much in the way of funding either. Our efforts will need to narrowly target the undecided and give us the best bang for the buck.

Social media will likely be a good method as this younger generation isn't glued to the tele or traditional media like other generations. In my experience their attention span is very short, so the message delivery method should catch their attention but be short and sweet.

 

[arakboss]

I completely agree that there is a group that has their mind made up and not worth engaging. It would be like one of them coming to us to discuss their "feelings" as to why we should not have guns.

The OP noted undecided or uninformed folks, and there are plenty of them. That is who we need to talk with. Start here, Women.

My wife (and I) work with various women's shooting groups and new shooters. Some are gun people, but many are just good folks who are now getting into firearms. They are fantastic at listening to reason, evaluating facts and also sharing this with others in their circles, which is very important. Many of them bring their non-shooting but open-minded friends to shoot with them, thus continuing the cycle. When you explain to them that the government is trying to ban the magazines for the new Glock they just purchased they get upset because they know there is no reason behind it.

This is HALF of the voting block.

Fact is, if we do not have women onboard with us, we do not have the numbers.

If I had to guess the undecided are going to be less than 10% of voters.

Uniformed voters could be a different animal who should also be targeted. They may oppose anti gun legislation but either aren't paying attention to it or are unaware of what's in the anti gun legislation. I have seen this here on NWFA, with members coming in with questions about I-1639, etc and said they were unaware of it or what was in it. They could have been no votes if they had been made aware of it prior to passage. We can chide them for not paying attention or we can make an effort to make sure they are made aware of future anti gun legislation.

 

[Jdubthedub]

This may get me a little hate but…

Aside from what Andy has said, learn their political leanings, and use that I'm your favor.

I've had good luck with this statement. "We saw how fragile this country truly is and how easily it can become tyrannical during the Jan 6 riot. The 2A is our BEST weapon against that."


I kid y'all not, after sitting on that statement, I've had 4 different STAUNCH anti gunners want me to take them shooting and have taken 3 to buy their first gun.

 

[The B]

theres really only one argument that can be universally applied, regardless of demographics and political ideology - the gun as the great equalizer. stats and facts are good to keep in the back pocket, but rarely ever seem to make a difference right off the bat. the enemy has their own stats and facts that directly contradict ours, so just saying these things doesnt make them true in the eyes of those getting compelling numbers from both sides.

you really want to save the 2nd amendment? separate it from the Right. this new generation coming up is anti-gun not because of stats or facts, but because they associate gun culture with Conservatism and absolutely despise anything Right and/or establishment. theyre anti-gun only because youre pro-gun. dont believe me? my current girlfriend is 23 and i havent dated anyone over the age of 24 in half a decade... i spend an inordinate amount of time with young adults (overwhelmingly liberal) and see this lit up like the crack o dawn. every debate i get into with this new generation goes exactly the same - we work through the facts n stats, because thats where everyone wants to pretend they base their beliefs, then we get to the general proposal to agree-to-disagree, which i gently push past and move onto bubblegum they can relate with:

this generation of young women are bubbleguming terrified of being taken advantage of by nasty racist white men (not relevant, but it always follows). so i play to that idea - whats the one thing that puts you, 110lb girl, on an even playing field with a 220lb racist trying to rape you?

i still usually dont exactly get anywhere, but it does almost always stall out their arguing ability.

if the world is so safe that none of us law abiding citizens need guns, then why are you so terrified of nasty older white men that you need to have security walk you out to your car every night? stop confusing your hatred for what you perceive to be a world ruined by boomers with any actual reasonable argument against guns. YOU need a goddamn gun in your purse.

i also lay heavily on the fact that the disadvantaged of all kinds - minorities, women, the disabled, LGBTQ, et al, ought to arm up - as its literally the only way to keep Republicans from raping you.

like i said, i dont ever get any converts wanting to take a knee at the alter of self-defense, but i absolutely see the glimmer of hope in some eyes.

and i guess above all else - i never ever let myself get baited into anger or get aggressive about it. all the logic and sense making in the world drowns as soon as you get emotionally stupid.

on things like "assault weapons," i always go for the full admission than theyre "more deadly" than other guns, because they bubbleguming are and anyone with any sense can recognize this. denying it, as we've debated before, just makes you look stupid or disingenuous. yes - my SBR M4 is capable of much death and bodily destruction. thats literally the point of having it, because if im going to need to grab a gun to preserve my own life against someone who would take it from me, i absolutely demand the most effective weapon i can get my hands on. thats a life or death contest - its absolutely insane to deliberately handicap yourself in a gunfight for some bullbubblegum construct notion of virtue.

in summary- disconnect gun rights from politics, understand what their REAL issue is, and use reason over subjective "facts"

 

[arakboss]

theres really only one argument that can be universally applied, regardless of demographics and political ideology - the gun as the great equalizer. stats and facts are good to keep in the back pocket, but rarely ever seem to make a difference right off the bat. the enemy has their own stats and facts that directly contradict ours, so just saying these things doesnt make them true in the eyes of those getting compelling numbers from both sides.

you really want to save the 2nd amendment? separate it from the Right. this new generation coming up is anti-gun not because of stats or facts, but because they associate gun culture with Conservatism and absolutely despise anything Right and/or establishment. theyre anti-gun only because youre pro-gun. dont believe me? my current girlfriend is 23 and i havent dated anyone over the age of 24 in half a decade... i spend an inordinate amount of time with young adults (overwhelmingly liberal) and see this lit up like the crack o dawn. every debate i get into with this new generation goes exactly the same - we work through the facts n stats, because thats where everyone wants to pretend they base their beliefs, then we get to the general proposal to agree-to-disagree, which i gently push past and move onto bubblegum they can relate with:

this generation of young women are bubbleguming terrified of being taken advantage of by nasty racist white men (not relevant, but it always follows). so i play to that idea - whats the one thing that puts you, 110lb girl, on an even playing field with a 220lb racist trying to rape you?

i still usually dont exactly get anywhere, but it does almost always stall out their arguing ability.

if the world is so safe that none of us law abiding citizens need guns, then why are you so terrified of nasty older white men that you need to have security walk you out to your car every night? stop confusing your hatred for what you perceive to be a world ruined by boomers with any actual reasonable argument against guns. YOU need a goddamn gun in your purse.

i also lay heavily on the fact that the disadvantaged of all kinds - minorities, women, the disabled, LGBTQ, et al, ought to arm up - as its literally the only way to keep Republicans from raping you.

like i said, i dont ever get any converts wanting to take a knew at the alter of self-defense, but i absolutely see the glimmer of hope in some eyes.

and i guess above all else - i never ever let myself get baited into anger or get aggressive about it. all the logic and sense making in the world drowns as soon as you get emotionally stupid.

on things like "assault weapons," i always go for the full admission than theyre "more deadly" than other guns, because they bubbleguming are and anyone with any sense can recognize this. denying it, as we've debated before, just makes you look stupid or disingenuous. yes - my SBR M4 is capable of much death and bodily destruction. thats literally the point of having it, because if im going to need to grab a gun to preserve my own life against someone who would take it from me, i absolutely demand the most effective weapon i can get my hands on. thats a life or death contest - its absolutely insane to deliberately handicap yourself in a gunfight for some bullbubblegum construct notion of virtue.

in summary- disconnect gun rights from politics, understand what their REAL issue is, and use reason over subjective "facts"

This is a difficult task but you are right in that we need to separate firearm freedoms from being a conservative issue. I don't care what color somebody is, what political leanings they have, etc. If they appreciate firearm freedoms then I want them to oppose the restrictions. Many of the undecided are likely going to be in the age group you are talking about.

The question remains how do you reach the groups you mentioned?

 

[2506]

There is no talking to these people.

How about we DO NOT COMPLY?

The whole country needs to refuse. They can't put us all in jail.

We have the numbers, not them.

It's like speeding on the highway, they have pretty much given up.

Im not sure we have the numbers, unfortunately. Most gun purchases are made by existing gun owners. In 2019, 2.4 million Americans became new gun owners — 3.8 million in 2020. Considering 80 million people voted for Biden, it's an uphill battle.

 

[arakboss]

Im not sure we have the numbers, unfortunately. Most gun purchases are made by existing gun owners. In 2019, 2.4 million Americans became new gun owners — 3.8 million in 2020. Considering 80 million people voted for Biden, it's an uphill battle.

I'm not sure we have the numbers either in a statewide vote. When it comes to legislation, sometimes you don't need an overall majority, you just need a very vocal and active minority.

 

[VanceInWA]

When discussing this matter :

Speak articulately...
Do not use terms like Fudd , Demorats , Liberal , Commie , etc.....
Do not attack others who feel / think differently....

Use and have on ready to hand out sheets facts and figures to refute Anti Gun rhetoric...
Use accredited sources for the above....

Show pictures of you and others cleaning up outdoor shooting areas....

Explain that certain terms used to describe firearms and firearm owners , aren't all that accurate or even true.

Related to the above...
Ask why is it wrong to equate all within a certain group , as "bad" or dangerous , because of the actions of a few , who are in a particular group , in regards to religion or race , etc...
But that it is seeming okay to to so with firearm owners.

Point put that what is done to one Amendment , makes it easier to do all the rest of the Amendments.

Andy

That is the correct response when dealing with reasonable people... which is why this approach has failed for so many years. The unfortunate truth is that ideologues do not respond to a reasonable approach. Consequently, force of policy must be met with equal if not more aggressive force of policy. Period.