How many round will a bullet seater seat if a bullet seater....

[deadshot2]

This type of "ring" often appears when you are essentially using the bullet as an "expander". I would check the ID of the case mouth after sizing. It shouldn't be smaller than the bullet you are using by more than .001"-.003". Any more and you are putting far too much pressure on the bullet. This ring will continue to form unless you have a seater plug that matches the bullet profile exactly.

As for expander ball wear, maybe some more attention to brass cleaning, especially the case neck, before sizing would be in order. Corncob and walnut shell media does a poor job of cleaning inside the case. For that reason I have changed to using the Stainless Steel pins which clean the inside of the case, as well as primer pockets.

I'm with Jamie6.5 on the topic of "work hardening". All my brass gets annealed after 5-6 reloads. Not only do they resize with ease, the end result is more uniform yielding finished rounds with great concentricity.

 

[mjbskwim]

OK,I'm new to this so what is annealing?

And most all of this brass is first or second time reloads from commercial boxed ammo.
The 270 brass is all new .Some was Federal brass,which the tops weren't even cut square and the rest is Nosler and Hornady

And these are brand new parts from RCBS
I talked to some who don't clean there brass,say it's no biggy.Some say every other time.I decided to just clean it every time. I've thought about the stainless steel medium too.

In talking to all these people,and I have hung out at the reload section to pick up as much info as possible,no one has every said anything about changing parts after a few hundred rounds.
Just pisses me off.Even if it wasn't the seater's fault,then the sizer was too small.Or did the brass wear it out that fast?

Funny thing is even with the rings on the bullets,me and a friend were shooting MOA easily with them.

 

[mjbskwim]

Annealing Brass in HD - YouTube

And after I get my Dillon 650

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaXzARG5Qz0&feature=related

 

[mjbskwim]

So the brass is finishing at .215/220 and the sizer is .221

 

[Jamie6.5]

.220-.221 is fine for a bullet that is .223. That'll give you .002-.003" of neck tension.
Anything below .220 is too small and is bound to require excess seating pressure.
If bullets moving under recoil is an issue, then crimp them.

.270 brass grows quite a bit, I know that from experience. And even though you trim, the necks seem to get noticeably thicker after about 4 loadings, which may also be a factor, depending on the brand.

 

[AMProducts]

This is a really common problem I have to deal with, as I frequently load cast bullets, or plated bullets. In fact it's such a pain in my *** on a continual basis, I felt the need to make a blog post about it: Ammo Blog: Bullet Seating Woes

 

[deadshot2]

There is also another solution. If you are using a Lee seating die, Lee will make a custom seating plug for a whopping $12. $8 for the plug and $5 for shipping. You just send them a sample bullet with a check. Takes about a week.

Most die manufacturers will offer similar services but Lee is about the least expensive for both the die and the custom plug.

 

[mjbskwim]

Yeah deadshot,maybe I'll just get the Hornady dies for seating the v-max,or try some speers since that's a RCBS brotherhood.
Not that big of a deal for the plinkers but for my accuracy rounds,I'll need to try something else

So since I'm getting about .006 difference between different brass,I'm guessing that would be the manufacturers and there compounds no?Some springier than others.

 

[deadshot2]

Take a look at the Redding Dies. I am now using a Redding "S" Die for seating my match grade Nosler's in .308. Added the micrometer seater plug which makes it easy to adjust OAL down to the "fuzzies on a gnat's you know whats". Redding offers this micrometer plug in a couple different configurations to accomodate the different ogives (secant or tangent).

I load the A-Max using this setup too and it leaves a mark free bullet.

As for RCBS dies, I am not as enamored by them as a lot of reloaders seem to be. I've found Redding and Forster to have better products for precision ammo. For that matter, even some Lee dies do a better job than RCBS. I have an RCBS sizing die that puts lube dents in every 5.56mm case unless I practically wipe it dry before sizing. A Lee die for the same caliber won't dent the 5.56mm cases even if their is enough case lube on it that it looks like "finger painting". Lee dies include a relief hole for the lube that's often trapped in the shoulder area. For some reason RCBS hasn't figured that out (or at least hadn't at the time I bought the die).

 

[HollisOR]

Q, are you seating the bullet and crimping at the same time?

 

[civilian75]

Q, are you seating the bullet and crimping at the same time?

Excellent question! Since I don't have a progressive it did not occur to me. If "yes", separate seating and crimping steps. If that takes care of it, add a Lee Factory Crimp die to the shell plate.

 

[HollisOR]

Excellent question! Since I don't have a progressive it did not occur to me. If "yes", separate seating and crimping steps. If that takes care of it, add a Lee Factory Crimp die to the shell plate.

The Lee Factory crimp dies, is probably one of the best buys on the market. A must have.

 

[mjbskwim]

Q, are you seating the bullet and crimping at the same time?

The RCBS die set for 223 only came with 2 dies,so I'm guessing I am.

I was asking some dedicated realoaders today (forgot to take the specimens in)and one guy asked if wouldn't be better for me to just buy commercial.
I kicked his stool out from under him.(he was real old and can't run after me)

I'm going to play with just sizing and seating w/o any powder or primers till I can get this set up correctly.
Half of this is probably my fault but the guys today liked redding over RCBS too.

I'm going back to step 1 and will report back.There has to be someone else messing up like I am

 

[Jamie6.5]

:huh:

I'm going back to step 1 and will report back.There has to be someone else messing up like I am

There was at least one that I know of,...

Why do you think I've made the suggestions I have?
When things go wrong, going back to step one is never a bad idea, even if only for review.

 

[motoman98]

Being a long time reloader, I haven't seen many problems of marking bullets while seating, usually a shape misfit to the ogive of the bullet. However, I think steel expander plugs SUCK. IF you can find one, buy a carbide expander ball; you won't believe the lack of 'drag' as you extract your sized case over it AND you don't need to lube the inside of the neck. Sweet!

 

[HollisOR]

The RCBS die set for 223 only came with 2 dies,so I'm guessing I am.

I was asking some dedicated realoaders today (forgot to take the specimens in)and one guy asked if wouldn't be better for me to just buy commercial.
I kicked his stool out from under him.(he was real old and can't run after me)

I'm going to play with just sizing and seating w/o any powder or primers till I can get this set up correctly.
Half of this is probably my fault but the guys today liked redding over RCBS too.

I'm going back to step 1 and will report back.There has to be someone else messing up like I am

Even pistol dies, the seater and crimp die are the same. Crimp die does two things. 1) remove the flair on the mouth that allows for easy seating 2) crimps the case to the bullet's cannelure. If you are crimping and seating, the crimping process will make the seating the bullet hard as it goes into the neck.

I would get a Lee factory crimp die and not use the one that comes with the die set. My bias. If you are going to use the crimp die, then make it another step in your reloading process. Raise the die about 1/8 higher than case holder (as high as necessary to prevent any crimp). Set you seater, where you want the bullets seated. Then, back the seater all the way off and set your crimp. If there is no cannelure on the bullet, all you need is remove any flair at the mouth of the case. Crimping keeps the bullet from moving, Single shot rifles don't need it. If you are loading the bullets into a magazine in the firearm, recoil can cause the bullet to slowly come out of the case, this is more for higher recoil rifles. .223 is pretty light on recoil.

Also the greater the crimp the greater will be the increase in chamber pressures. Also excessive crimping (more than moving any flair) a non-cannelure bullet can/will cause the mouth to bulge.


I seriously doubt this has anything to do with RCBS VS Redding or any other die set. I use both and never noticed a difference, I even use Lee dies, along with Lyman, Hornady and some custom die sets.

If I am missing something, please jump in.

 

[civilian75]

Regardless, i'd get a Lee factory crimp die. It is the cheapest best investment you can make. I have a single stage and I still use it for my 75gr SMKs (no cannelure). Crimping and seating in the same stage can be tricky especially when bullets ogive and length is no perfectly uniform.

Also, a compressed loads combined with high neck tension will make your problems worst.

 

[deadshot2]

IF you can find one, buy a carbide expander ball; you won't believe the lack of 'drag' as you extract your sized case over it AND you don't need to lube the inside of the neck. Sweet!

Don't overlook the Lee Collet Die for sizing. I use one exclusively for sizing all the brass that I've fired in my rifles. Absolutely no lube required anywhere, inside or outside the case. By forming the neck around the long mandrel I have found even less runout on finished rounds than from my best dies from Redding or Forster.

For Full Length Sizing I favor the Lee F/L sizing dies. The longer taper on the de-capping/expander makes it easier to straighten out a neck that may have been crushed somewhat (like I find in my free once fired brass). The expander side is also a slower taper which reduces effort greatly.

 

[mjbskwim]

So I finally took a couple rounds into the local gun shop.The guy there ,Don,shoots cowboy 3 gun and some long range stuff.Mostly prairie dogs and other vermin. He has reloaded for years.

So his diagnosis is the brass necks aren't getting opened enough to seat the bullet causing too much pressure on the bullet it self and there fore scrunching it.
And then went about selling me some high dollar Nosler brass.Felt kinda obligated after the help.

So it apparently isn't the bullet seater but a sizing problem.Either the sizing ball is wearing out prematurely or all my twice fired brass is junk and too springy to size.
The next step is to go out and measure the ball.(it's cold and windy,so this may take a few.....minutes.
I measured a brand new one today and it was right about .222 with a cheapo dial micro.Forgot to take my digital with me.
Then I will go buy some more sizer balls and call RCBS again and ask how many rounds these are supposed to last.
I mean if it's only 100,then why not just put 4-5 in the die kits?

But in the next couple months I will be buying the redding go fast ones linked above for my long range AR.

Thanks again for all the help and ideas

 

[mjbskwim]

Yeah about .220,so not really big enough to open the brass for a .224 bullet.

Do they make this stuff cheap so you'll buy the carbide sets? or are the expander balls the same?