How exactly does one do a citizen’s arrest?

[jrd541280]

Here is a question. Are you only allowed by law, to protect the inside of your home, or your entire property by whatever means YOU deem necessary until the cops arrive? I agree, call 911 at first opportunity, but do I have to wait while someone is doing something outside my home that may or may not cause us harm while waiting for the deputies that may be 15 minutes out?

 

[L84Cabo]

Here is a question. Are you only allowed by law, to protect the inside of your home, or your entire property by whatever means YOU deem necessary?

I'm not even sure you're allowed to protect the inside of your home by whatever means deemed necessary, let alone the outside.

Much depends on your individual state's laws, whether you have a Castle Doctrine, and the circumstances. Shoot an unarmed thief in the back in your house as he's headed for the door...that is not a case I would want to have to try and defend.

Protecting property outside of your home...and especially if you came out of the secure safety of your home to do it...is also not a case I would want to have to try and defend.

But it's really impossible to say without more details. I would, however, suggest that very little on the outside of your home is worth defending to the point of shooting somebody if you can avoid it. If someone is killing your dog outside, that's one thing. But if somebody is trying to steal your car...as much as that sucks...it's just stuff and you have insurance. It isn't worth killing or getting killed over IMO.

 

[jrd541280]

Good conversation, we are rural. I keep a loaded ? in my pickup in case I have to bug out. That crook is breaking into that pickup?

 

[jrd541280]

Btw, I'm not talking about shooting somebody unless threat. But holding them, aka citizens arrest, until cops arrive?

 

[s1xty7]

Here in Oregon, it is my understanding that you need several criteria to be satisfied before you can defend yourself with lethal force.

1) They have to threaten you in a believable fashion. A friend saying "I'm going to kill you" in a non-serious manner will not save you a conviction. You genuinely have to be in fear for your life.

2) They have to have a means to do you harm. If they are armed with a drinking straw and threaten to throw it at you to kill you, even if they truly mean it, would also likely get you convicted if you respond with opening fire.

3) They must be able to carry out the threat. An old lady, whom you could easily over power, attacking with a kitchen knife is also a target you don't want to shoot.

If those criteria aren't met, it's a no go on deadly force. It could be meth heads stealing your TV while you're watching it. Not allowed to shoot them if they don't meet the requirements.

While I hope it would turn out better, I would only shoot someone if I was willing to exchange my dieing for a life behind bars. If it doesn't meet that metric, it's not worth pulling the trigger.

Not saying I 100% agree with all of that, but they are my guiding principles when it comes to armed defense.

 

[No_Regerts]

If you don't have the physical ability and willingness to get into an alrercation and bear the consequences, I wouldn't try it. You would have to have enough knowledge of the law to know what crime is actually being committed and if it fits the threshold of what is legal in your state for a citizens arrest.

https://www.dol.wa.gov/business/securityguards/docs/citizenarrest1.pdf

 

[MikeInOr]

Oregon law does not explicitly reference the Castle Doctrine by name. However, the combination of Oregon's statutes on use of force and the interpretation by the OregonSupreme Court essentially mean that Oregon is a "Castle Doctrine"state and a "Stand Your Ground" state.

Oregon Castle Doctrine: Shooting Burglars or Intruders - Romano Law

Does Oregon Have a Castle Doctrine Law?
The phrase "Castle Doctrine Law" is a reference to a legal doctrine which designates a person's house as a place in which that person has protections and rights. The doctrine allows the owner or occupier to use force– up to and including deadly force– to defend oneself or another person against an intruder. For more information on the doctrine, read Wikipedia's detailed history of the Castle Doctrine.

Oregon law does not explicitly reference the Castle Doctrine by name. However, the combination of Oregon's statutes on use of force and the interpretation by the Oregon Supreme Court essentially mean that Oregon is a "Castle Doctrine"state and a "Stand Your Ground" state.

I am sure there are liberals in Portland and Eugene actively trying to "Fix" this!

 

[ilikegunspdx]

My understaning is that in Oregon if someone breaks in ur house u have no way to know their intentions and thus it fits the castle doctrine.

But if they broke into a detached garage? No. A car in the driveway? No. Crim In the yard? No. (Could be justified of course if other conditions existed such as gun-wielding person threatening family in the yard etc).

However what about an attached garage? A gray area I assume where there would have to be more evidence of imminent threat to use deadly force? Or maybe (probably) it's considered part of the inside of ur home? Just my understanding and I'm no lawyer.

 

[jrd541280]

Ok, again rural, thief is stealing my truck with bug out gun inside, do I stop him their, or let him take it putting a deputies life in harm if the thief discovers said firearm?
Millions of scenarios could be speculated from this. Bottom line for me is, do you trust your deputies and or your prosecuting attournies

 

[Alexx1401]

Yea, I called 911 one additional time to update her location but I was freezing after being out there that long and didn't want to spend the whole day watching some crazy person until the police arrive (if ever). That's not a knock on the police at all. It's just so much they have to deal with there is no way they can possibly respond to it all.

Yep, it is what it is. The working Cops can't control how things are done. They take the calls as they are given. In that City a call like that few will want to deal with. If they arrest the kook she will just be kicked right back out on the street. So no doubt a lot of LEO's figure why waste my time. Sooner or later she will hurt someone or get hurt. Sadly this is what the voters there decided they wanted for their city.

 

[Alexx1401]

Sadly true.

From the description and what I could see my money would be on her being a doper. Very possible there would be some mental health issues to go with it but I would feel it a safe bet that she is on street drugs too. Of course if they arrest her the jail does not want her. So she gets a citation, never shows up in court, and goes back to the streets. Pathetic waste of a life and a LOT of money.

 

[Alexx1401]

Ok, again rural, thief is stealing my truck with bug out gun inside, do I stop him their, or let him take it putting a deputies life in harm if the thief discovers said firearm?
Millions of scenarios could be speculated from this. Bottom line for me is, do you trust your deputies and or your prosecuting attournies

You really want the answer to that? You sure?
If you use a gun to protect your vehicle with no one in it better have a good lawyer. In most places you will need one. If you tell them you keep a gun in your vehicle while you are not using it, that is the next legal problem you will have. I would not admit you do this. If the vehicle is stolen and gun is there maybe say you were coming back from the range and had not removed it yet. If vehicle was at least secured so they had to break in, better. Gun owners are being demonized at every turn now. Many places want to hold the gun owner to account if some scum steals their gun from them. I don't like this crap but this is what gun owners vote for every 2 years. So now we all have to live with it while it's being fought in court.
Of course if you end up shooting said scum, thief, no matter why, follow my 1st rule. DO NOT plead your case to the LEO's who show up. Say "I had to defend my life, now I will let my lawyer speak for me". Almost everything else that comes out of your mouth from that point on is going to dig you into a hole. Even if the Police decide you are good, the scum often has family. Such as they are. If you have anything worth taking they may well find some bottom feeder to come after you for taking their "loved one away". This can get expensive.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

From the description and what I could see my money would be on her being a doper. Very possible there would be some mental health issues to go with it but I would feel it a safe bet that she is on street drugs too. Of course if they arrest her the jail does not want her. So she gets a citation, never shows up in court, and goes back to the streets. Pathetic waste of a life and a LOT of money.

I agree with this but she had to be crazy also imo.

So the q would be what can a person do that is productive? Calling 911 appears to be a waste of time.

Hypothetical example: What if she broke into a neighbors house and walked away with bags of their stuff. Do we sit and watch? It doesn't do any good to video. It doesn't do any good to follow them. Can't do citizens arrest apparently. 911 doesn't work. ?

 

[MikeInOr]

Ok, again rural, thief is stealing my truck with bug out gun inside, do I stop him their, or let him take it putting a deputies life in harm if the thief discovers said firearm?
Millions of scenarios could be speculated from this. Bottom line for me is, do you trust your deputies and or your prosecuting attournies

I think you are in trouble for having an unsecured gun! and responsible for anything that the thief does with your unsecured gun.

 

[Alexx1401]

I agree with this but she had to be crazy also imo.

So the q would be what can a person do that is productive? Calling 911 appears to be a waste of time.

Hypothetical example: What if she broke into a neighbors house and walked away with bags of their stuff. Do we sit and watch? It doesn't do any good to video. It doesn't do any good to follow them. Can't do citizens arrest apparently. 911 doesn't work. ?

If she does not die from an OD or disease I can pretty much guarantee she will get hurt or killed going into the wrong home. Often these types when they are high have no clue what's going on. She will break into someones home. What happens after that will depend on luck of the draw. I feel sorry for the home owner who has to deal with it. Again it's the voters and what they want. People vote for this over and over again. So now they get to live with it. All you can do is call 911, try to watch from a safe distance. The Police may or may not show. One advantage is hopefully she will get arrested at least a few times before some home owner has to deal with her. At least then there will be a record that the kook was a danger and had a record. Makes it a little easier for the poor person if they end up shooting her when she breaks in. Only the voters can change this and so far they are not willing to do so.

 

[cigars]

If you don't have the physical ability and willingness to get into an alrercation and bear the consequences, I wouldn't try it. You would have to have enough knowledge of the law to know what crime is actually being committed and if it fits the threshold of what is legal in your state for a citizens arrest.

https://www.dol.wa.gov/business/securityguards/docs/citizenarrest1.pdf

Translation: the Gomer standard doesn't cut it these days.

 

[Alexx1401]

My understaning is that in Oregon if someone breaks in ur house u have no way to know their intentions and thus it fits the castle doctrine.

But if they broke into a detached garage? No. A car in the driveway? No. Crim In the yard? No. (Could be justified of course if other conditions existed such as gun-wielding person threatening family in the yard etc).

However what about an attached garage? A gray area I assume where there would have to be more evidence of imminent threat to use deadly force? Or maybe (probably) it's considered part of the inside of ur home? Just my understanding and I'm no lawyer.

If you are in the said garage, attached or not, and scum comes at you, well protect yourself. Then follow Rule#1. Say I had to defend my life, now I need my Lawyer to speak for me". Of course always best way is if you can, let scum steal and hope law shows up in time. For everything they are going to steal you have to ask is it worth it to try to stop them? Make sure since once you shoot the fun really begins and can go on for years.

 

[jrd541280]

You really want the answer to that? You sure?
If you use a gun to protect your vehicle with no one in it better have a good lawyer. In most places you will need one. If you tell them you keep a gun in your vehicle while you are not using it, that is the next legal problem you will have. I would not admit you do this. If the vehicle is stolen and gun is there maybe say you were coming back from the range and had not removed it yet. If vehicle was at least secured so they had to break in, better. Gun owners are being demonized at every turn now. Many places want to hold the gun owner to account if some scum steals their gun from them. I don't like this crap but this is what gun owners vote for every 2 years. So now we all have to live with it while it's being fought in court.
Of course if you end up shooting said scum, thief, no matter why, follow my 1st rule. DO NOT plead your case to the LEO's who show up. Say "I had to defend my life, now I will let my lawyer speak for me". Almost everything else that comes out of your mouth from that point on is going to dig you into a hole. Even if the Police decide you are good, the scum often has family. Such as they are. If you have anything worth taking they may well find some bottom feeder to come after you for taking their "loved one away". This can get expensive.

The way I read your response is that it is ok for a thief to steal my property from my residence and I am to be blamed for leaving such stealbles on my property?

 

[Alexx1401]

The way I read your response is that it is ok for a thief to steal my property from my residence and I am to be blamed for leaving such stealbles on my property?

<sigh>
That is not what I said or how I "feel". This is the real world we live in here though. If I was King and could make all the rules? You could shoot scum, we would have a clean up crew pick him up and apologize that you had to bother. That is not the world we live in. Voters, many of them gun owners, have decided they don't like that. So they have decided the scum has all kinds of rights. So you want to use deadly or potentially deadly force to keep said scum from stealing from you? By all means go for it. If you do, remember what I have said till blue. Rule #1. Tell LEO's you had to defend your life, now I need my Lawyer to talk. In almost every case where a gun owner gets into trouble over a shoot it's their mouth that digs the hole for them.
If it goes to trial either criminal or civil and I am on your jury? They are not going to get my vote but, have you spent much time on jury duty? If not do, and after days of hanging around think, "do I want this crowd deciding my fate over someone who was stealing from me?" If the answer is yes, then by all means shoot that crook. We are better off with one less scum if you remove him from the gene pool.

 

[gunnails]

I think you are in trouble for having an unsecured gun! and responsible for anything that the thief does with your unsecured gun.

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In some jurisdictions I know this is correct but I don't
believe we have come to this point yet in OR?
If I leave a sledge hammer in my car and someone steals it, should I be responsible for them then using it to pound in my neighbors door and killing the neighbors wife..

Just saying these secure gun laws are BS.

LEO's leave shotguns or rifles routinely in their patrol cars..