homebased FFL any suggestions?

[rushdrummerman]

Decided to apply to become an FFL and do homebased and travelling transfers within my commute to work. If anyone has any experiences why this is or is not a good idea, I would like to hear them. Thank you

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[VinnieBoomBah]

There's an old story dealing with business advice, I remember seeing it in "Gunsmith's Kinks Vol II" from Brownells around 40 years ago, about how you shouldn't listen to those that did what you want to do and failed, you should talk to those that are doing what you want to do and succeeding.

In general I believe that to be good advise, but in this case I think you might be well served to see if you can find anyone in your area that used to have a homebased FFL and talk to them about why they closed. I say this because the rules for doing what you want to do have been changing over the last decade or so (and no, not just under Bidan) and they might have a different perspective on what can go wrong

Also keep DANG good records!!! Like so clean you could eat off them sort of records, because that seems to be the trouble spot these days

 

[rushdrummerman]

There's an old story dealing with business advice, I remember seeing it in "Gunsmith's Kinks Vol II" from Brownells around 40 years ago, about how you shouldn't listen to those that did what you want to do and failed, you should talk to those that are doing what you want to do and succeeding.

In general I believe that to be good advise, but in this case I think you might be well served to see if you can find anyone in your area that used to have a homebased FFL and talk to them about why they closed. I say this because the rules for doing what you want to do have been changing over the last decade or so (and no, not just under Bidan) and they might have a different perspective on what can go wrong

Also keep DANG good records!!! Like so clean you could eat off them sort of records, because that seems to be the trouble spot these days

Good advice. I do know 2 homebased FFL's in a neighboring county that I will chat with. Posting here seemed like a good place to get input from all over. While looking into it, the most troublesome thing I've found it what you said, those log books better be spotless.

 

[AME Firearms]

My personal experience from when I was operating out of my apartment:

It was fun. I enjoyed having something productive to do in my free time that was based around my hobby. Any money I made would be sunk back into my personal collection, and I'd end up keeping a lot of my inventory. This could be seen as a good thing or a bad thing. Have an idea going into it with how you are going to realistically deal with selling cool guns that you might like to keep.

There were frustrating parts. Paperwork sucks, of course. Dealing with the ATF is always scary. Customers can be hit or miss, like anything. Prepare to deal with flakers and scammers. Also be prepared to invite some... well, weird people into your house. It's difficult to screen those out.

Big peeve of mine was unannounced deliveries. If you aren't at home when the deliveryman comes, you usually have to go pick up the package the next day. So there goes however much time it takes you to drive to UPS/USPS/Fedex/whatever and then back. And then you have to get ahold of the buyer, which can sometimes be a challenge. You are also in charge of holding their firearm in inventory until they come to pick it up, and then however many days it takes for the BGC to clear (unless you are willing to do 5 day transfers). And then you have to set time aside for two visits from that same customer. So it ends up being a lot of work for.... what are you going to charge? $25? Better have that figured out... I started charging an extra $10 if the delivery was unannounced.

Even if I was expecting a delivery, I found that made me not want to leave my apartment until the gun was delivered. Bummer if I had plans for the day.

Your name, address, and business name will be publicly available. This can be disconcerting.

You get to sign up for dealer accounts with many online stores, so make sure you take advantage of that.

The ATF will check that you have all your business licensing taken care of. For some, this is a challenge. See if you are in need of a Home Occupation Permit in your county if you haven't already.

I never set up a booth at a gunshow, but I attended the Portland ones often. I found good deals frequently, and most sellers are willing to take some off the price because you are an easy customer (no BGC).

Good luck. Feel free to reach out with any questions.

 

[oremike]

I would wait until the legalities of measure 114 and the like all shake out. There is a possibility that there could be no gun sales for 3 years until some sort of training is done and if so there will be a time lag in people getting the training as well.

 

[rushdrummerman]

My personal experience from when I was operating out of my apartment:

It was fun. I enjoyed having something productive to do in my free time that was based around my hobby. Any money I made would be sunk back into my personal collection, and I'd end up keeping a lot of my inventory. This could be seen as a good thing or a bad thing. Have an idea going into it with how you are going to realistically deal with selling cool guns that you might like to keep.

There were frustrating parts. Paperwork sucks, of course. Dealing with the ATF is always scary. Customers can be hit or miss, like anything. Prepare to deal with flakers and scammers. Also be prepared to invite some... well, weird people into your house. It's difficult to screen those out.

Big peeve of mine was unannounced deliveries. If you aren't at home when the deliveryman comes, you usually have to go pick up the package the next day. So there goes however much time it takes you to drive to UPS/USPS/Fedex/whatever and then back. And then you have to get ahold of the buyer, which can sometimes be a challenge. You are also in charge of holding their firearm in inventory until they come to pick it up, and then however many days it takes for the BGC to clear (unless you are willing to do 5 day transfers). And then you have to set time aside for two visits from that same customer. So it ends up being a lot of work for.... what are you going to charge? $25? Better have that figured out... I started charging an extra $10 if the delivery was unannounced.

Even if I was expecting a delivery, I found that made me not want to leave my apartment until the gun was delivered. Bummer if I had plans for the day.

Your name, address, and business name will be publicly available. This can be disconcerting.

You get to sign up for dealer accounts with many online stores, so make sure you take advantage of that.

The ATF will check that you have all your business licensing taken care of. For some, this is a challenge. See if you are in need of a Home Occupation Permit in your county if you haven't already.

I never set up a booth at a gunshow, but I attended the Portland ones often. I found good deals frequently, and most sellers are willing to take some off the price because you are an easy customer (no BGC).

Good luck. Feel free to reach out with any questions.

Thanks for all the tips, I will shoot you a message when I have some free time today. When you say unannounced deliveries, I assume you mean a customer that orders a firearm and has it shipped to you without arranging it with you first?

 

[User 1234]

What do you mean by "traveling transfers"?

 

[bentoncity]

I have a friend here in Washington that's quitting her home based FFL business. The people & the paperwork is why she's quitting. Good luck..

Dan

 

[Camelfilter]

What do you mean by "traveling transfers"?

Yes, curious as well...

 

[Aero Denezol]

I wouldn't do it again. In fact we are not going to renew our license when it expires next year. I'm packing up all the 4473s and shipping them to West Virginia and washing my hands.

If you do get an FFL license you will meet some truly great people and save a little money on products, but the paperwork is significant and as someone else pointed out the ATF is just one more scary federal agency looming over your business. If you are not the kind of person that crosses all their Ts and dots all their Is you could be audited and fined. Federal Agencies are about the rules. They are not about common sense or good intentions.

Also the way distributors work, they allocate the best products to their biggest customers. So as a small FFL you will have a hard time finding a lot of in-demand products for your customers. At least this was my experience. I could order Glocks or P365s all day, but anything new and novel was never made available to me.

 

[rushdrummerman]

What do you mean by "traveling transfers"?

My first thought would be doing transfers in between my home and work so it doesn't take me too far off course but still be able to make a few bucks in the process

 

[Camelfilter]

My first thought would be doing transfers in between my home and work so it doesn't take me too far off course but still be able to make a few bucks in the process

Ahh, makes sense.

I don't believe such is legal. However, never been an FFL, so no idea...

 

[AME Firearms]

Thanks for all the tips, I will shoot you a message when I have some free time today. When you say unannounced deliveries, I assume you mean a customer that orders a firearm and has it shipped to you without arranging it with you first?

Correct. Some gun websites will just advertise you as an FFL, which is a curse and a blessing. So every once in a while, a gun would just show up at my doorstep with a name and phone number to call. It took some gettting used to.

 

[User 1234]

My first thought would be doing transfers in between my home and work so it doesn't take me too far off course but still be able to make a few bucks in the process

Because of the nature of a firearms business, and the current heavy-handed enforcement, I would vet each part of your business plan against the ATF's regulations. Look before you leap. This is not an area where I would count on OJT.

27 CFR § 478.50 | eRegulations

regulations.atf.gov

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Correct. Some gun websites will just advertise you as an FFL, which is a curse and a blessing. So every once in a while, a gun would just show up at my doorstep with a name and phone number to call. It took some gettting used to.

Back around 1983 or so I worked at a small gun shop in north Phoenix AZ and one morning right when we unlocked the door a guy ran in with a coffee can, dropped it on the counter and said "I couldn't get it back together, my cards in there and I'll be back this afternoon to pick it up" and than ran out the door before we could say anything

In the can was a Colt SAA stripped down to the last screw and card for a local attorney. We all just stared at it and the owner said "Dang if I'm going get my fingerprints on that!" Picked the can up with some pliers, put it in the safe and called the local ATF I think it took about a week before he gave it back to the guy and no, we did not reassemble it for him

 

[wired]

ive been a home based and B&M based FFL holder for 20 of the last 30 years. Im a home based 07/02 SOT right now only because I have a very well equipped home shop that I work out of and its a side gig. The last few times I did it I was buying and selling a lot of guns and doing transfer frequently. 10 a week a lot of times etc. This time Im on the same lists and it NEVER happens. I get no calls for transfers, no guns show up at the door etc. Its weird but thats not the core of my business. I do more gunsmithing work of sorts and build silencers. I dont care if no one ever comes to my door and my wife prefers that . The ATF really isn't heavy handed. I know they seem that way if you aren't in the business but the expectation is ALWAYS there that you keep your records clean. So do that. Its not freakin' rocket science.

 

[AME Firearms]

Unfortunately, the rules are pretty well laid out for where an FFL can transfer guns. It is either at their place of business, or at a gun show. You would be allowed to travel to purchase firearms, but not to sell (unless it is at a gun show).

 

[wired]

Back around 1983 or so I worked at a small gun shop in north Phoenix AZ and one morning right when we unlocked the door a guy ran in with a coffee can, dropped it on the counter and said "I couldn't get it back together, my cards in there and I'll be back this afternoon to pick it up" and than ran out the door before we could say anything

In the can was a Colt SAA stripped down to the last screw and card for a local attorney. We all just stared at it and the owner said "Dang if I'm going get my fingerprints on that!" Picked the can up with some pliers, put it in the safe and called the local ATF I think it took about a week before he gave it back to the guy and no, we did not reassemble it for him

Take one apart for the first time. It'll do that to you.

 

[oremike]

One thing I'll add is there will be an inspection of where you will be doing business. I'm an 06 FFL and work out of my garage so that's what he looked at. Presumably being home based he'd want to see some heightened security and storage. I'm not sure how working out of your car will pass the sniff test unless you operate out of an armored car. Also some Wholesalers won't sell to you if you don't have a brick and mortar store or at least an unattached building with regular hours. I was able to get around that by taking photos of my 16' of gun show table all with my logo-ed ammo on it. That and my FFL made me look legit I suppose.

 

[wired]

I didn't get any of that. She came in , sat down we had coffee and she went down the briefing list. Calling it an interview is really not how it works.