FFL for muzzleloaders in WA?????????

shibbershabber · Sep 3, 2023

at Budsgunshop.com trying to buy a cap & ball revolver and at checkout it said that due to my location the gun had to go to an FFL.

Did they goof or did I miss something?

Are black powder guns restricted to FFL sales in WA now?

Alexx1401 · Sep 3, 2023

shibbershabber said:
at Budsgunshop.com trying to buy a cap & ball revolver and at checkout it said that due to my location the gun had to go to an FFL.

Did they goof or did I miss something?

Are black powder guns restricted to FFL sales in WA now?

I have to "guess" this is them just being overly cautious due to the AG here. I just logged into my Midway account, looked at one and they were ready to ship it to me directly.

Croat · Sep 3, 2023

Not right. You should refer that to William Kirk. Buds needs re-training.

Alexx1401 · Sep 3, 2023

Croat said:
Not right. You should refer that to William Kirk. Buds needs re-training.

If they are being extra careful not really sure what a lawyer is going to do? Buds has to have a lawyer suggesting they no longer ship them to WA. They are free to do what they feel works. Sadly this is what so many in WA have done to themselves. A lot of people here sat out elections and allowed this mess.

trevi · Sep 3, 2023

shibbershabber said:
at Budsgunshop.com trying to buy a cap & ball revolver and at checkout it said that due to my location the gun had to go to an FFL.

Did they goof or did I miss something?

Are black powder guns restricted to FFL sales in WA now?

Call them up.

drstrangelove · Sep 3, 2023

https://www.budsgunshop.com/feeds/state_reg/washington_restrictions.pdf

I guess there is a rule that slipped in somewhere about needing BRCs to make sure felons don't get black powder guns?

Sure glad I bought when I did.

Ura-Ki · Sep 3, 2023

The Catch All, with Cap and Ball Revolvers is "IF" they can take a "Conversion Cylinder" then the shops/sellers usually insist on going through an FFL!
It's complete bullsh!t if you ax me, but it's the world we now must live in! Is it right, NO, is it Law, NO, but is this the hill you wanna die on!
Find another one local, someone who knows the damn law, Like Muzzleloaders Emporium in Springfield, if they don't have it, you don't need it, and they KNOW the Damn Law!

Andy54Hawken · Sep 4, 2023

I read that disclaimer of Bud's....

And disagree with their use of phrase :
"Thus all "modern" black powder firearms , even those that are not convertible to rimfire or centerfire must transfer through an FFL."
Specifically the use of the word "all"....
If one spends enough time and money...and one has both the knowledge and skill ...of course one could convert any muzzle loader to a rimfire or centerfire firearm.
However...the kicker here is someone having enough money along with the knowledge and skill to do so.
Most people do not.

I think that there are few things going on here...Bud's is at best , erring on the side of caution , or at worst "reading" into Washington state law.
And...
That Washington state law , in regards to "..redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire ignition with fixed ammunition..."
Is for those revolvers that were built on a cap and ball revolver's frame , but made to shoot modern ammo...
Replicas like the Richards conversion , etc....
I could see the law also being applied to the various conversion units*....but not to all cap and ball revolvers.
( And not to all / any muzzle loaders )

With all that said...
I ain't a lawyer...and I don't get paid to write or in interpret dumb azz laws.
Andy
*Edit to add :
I can see the law being applied here...not that I agree with it ..or think that it should be applied..or even written in the first place.

oremike · Sep 4, 2023

I don't know about the Black Powder stuff but I do know my local gun guy won't accept shipments from Buds. He said too many times he's seen the wrong guns arrive or not at all and he's got to deal with trying to make it right for his customer.

thorborg · Sep 4, 2023

I don't ship anything as a private sales and feel that is the right of all to choose how, what / to who they are willing to sell, from guns to cup cakes, even as a commercial business.
HOWEVER, even though I don't feel the need to espouse a reason, I don't BS anyone as to why, that's just not right! They have poor ethics.

Dozer99 · Sep 4, 2023

I have dealt with Bud's exactly one time. I bought a handgun from them and what arrived at my FFL was a long gun of lesser value. Bud's tried to have me keep it. It took over 6 months to get the whole mess straightened out and ended with me getting my money back and no handgun.

Would not do business with them ever again. JMTC

Croat · Sep 4, 2023

Dozer99 said:
I have dealt with Bud's exactly one time. I bought a handgun from them and what arrived at my FFL was a long gun of lesser value. Bud's tried to have me keep it. It took over 6 months to get the whole mess straightened out and ended with me getting my money back and no handgun.

Would not do business with them ever again. JMTC

Yeah. Not surprised. Never been impressed. So many other options. Funny thing about the 2020s: Customer service has become so sucky these days that, ironically, it has forced me to steer all my business to just quality customer service companies, even if they cost me a bit more. In the long run, well worth it.

Alexx1401 · Sep 4, 2023

Croat said:
Yeah. Not surprised. Never been impressed. So many other options. Funny thing about the 2020s: Customer service has become so sucky these days that, ironically, it has forced me to steer all my business to just quality customer service companies, even if they cost me a bit more. In the long run, well worth it.

I have never had a problem paying a little more for things if the choice is one place with really bad customer service stories, and for a little more a place that everyone seems to love. Good service should be rewarded.

RVTECH · Sep 4, 2023

Dozer99 said:
Bud's tried to have me keep it.

Did they make you any offers or 'sweet deals' to influence you to keep it ?

I would have 'offered' to keep it, providing they agreed to apply what I paid to the gun I ordered - and get it on the way.

Skully · Sep 25, 2023

shibbershabber said:
at Budsgunshop.com trying to buy a cap & ball revolver and at checkout it said that due to my location the gun had to go to an FFL.

Did they goof or did I miss something?

Are black powder guns restricted to FFL sales in WA now?

No just some buisness are dumb/ignorant and don't know the law. I know you literally can't do a pre 1898 gun on a 4473. That said I've seen some really "overly cautious" people only sell Blackpowders to someone with a chl (they almost never sell even below msrp lol). It's something I really won't miss in the west coast as I've never had anyone ask that when I visit out of state and want to buy a antique/Blackpowder. Honestly I could understand the ones who won't ship to WA semi auto ar due to the paperwork locals need they Honestly might not know how to tell if sent fake or real, or don't want returns based on uneducated customers however, wanting a ffl for a Blackpowder is ridiculous. If atf is ok they really should be. Just find another site to buy from.