Home security - the "ha-ha" wall

[Captain O]

When it came to Punji Sticks, we dipped the tips of ours in a mild poison, while Charlie dipped his in urine and fecal matter. This is how they kept our men in the hospital... blood infections.

 

[cigars]

How far does the wall go? Hopefully it's not like the Magineaux line where the Nazi's just walked around it...

 

[Captain O]

How far does the wall go? Hopefully it's not like the Magineaux line where the Nazi's just walked around it...

If you've ever been down on the border, it isn't a "walk in the park" in urban areas. Many illegals break legs and incur lacerations scaling the 20 foot fence in the San Ysidro/Tijuana International Boundary fence.

When first erected, much of the fence with doors built into the fence so the GSA workers could maintain it. (Remember, we gave up 3 feet of our sovereign land so that the fence could be maintained without violating Mexican sovreignty). The fence was made from corrugated steel sheets the Government used for aircraft landing strips during the Korean and Vietnam wars. These were staked into place.

I have watched "drug mules" with 20 Kilogram bales of Marijuana scale the fence and run from east of the northbound lanes of Mexican Federal Highway #1 toward downtown San Ysidro. The answer to this is the added barrier of the pit with the sharpened .75" Rebar spaced unevenly across a 45-foot trench, with a strategic walkway for fence/wall maintenance. Sensors on/along these walkways would deter intruders from attempting to use them for drug trafficking. There are non-lethal "booby-trap" options for detection (ground sensors, cameras, infrared motion detection devices, etc.). There are ways to accomplish this.

 

[Mark W.]

We visited England and went to at least 2 dozen castles some Huge like Dover others just tiny little Keeps in the middle of no where. And the one defensive construction that got me was the 80 degree dirt slopes that had this HA HA trench at the bottom they were planted with grass so without a ladder no way could a human even with crampons get up it and at the top was about a 15ft stone castle wall. One place I bet the grass slope was a good 25 feet. And the best part was that while you could use a ladder to climb up the grass slope there was no where to put the base of a ladder to scale the stone wall. And I mean NONE. On top of the wall was about a 10 ft wide walk also made of dirt where any manner of weapon could be staged from Boiling oil to baskets of rocks and of course archers.

 

[mkwerx]

We visited England and went to at least 2 dozen castles some Huge like Dover others just tiny little Keeps in the middle of no where. And the one defensive construction that got me was the 80 degree dirt slopes that had this HA HA trench at the bottom they were planted with grass so without a ladder no way could a human even with crampons get up it and at the top was about a 15ft stone castle wall. One place I bet the grass slope was a good 25 feet. And the best part was that while you could use a ladder to climb up the grass slope there was no where to put the base of a ladder to scale the stone wall. And I mean NONE. On top of the wall was about a 10 ft wide walk also made of dirt where any manner of weapon could be staged from Boiling oil to baskets of rocks and of course archers.

Sounds like what I want to build if I ever win some megamongopowerjackpot or something.

 

[Camelfilter]

Sounds like what I want to build if I ever win some megamongopowerjackpot or something.

...and one of those new "safety" houses. Reinforced concrete, windows with that special film on them, reinforced entryways, safe room/shelter, indoor & outdoor pools, stand alone power system supplemented with wind/solar.

 

[Mark W.]

One of the other interesting castle defense systems that could be incorporated into a modern house. Is the compartmentalized entry. Where you pass through a door or gate only to be presented with a small room and a second door. While trapped in the small room the aggressor has limited movement and is easily attacked from things like firing slots or overhead things like boiling oil or baskets of rocks can be dropped on them.

In a modern house if you have a completely enclosed front porch with a secure door then once an aggressor passes through the outer door they are technically in your house while your still protected by the Inner door. Creating a bit of a free fire zone.

Our house both main entrys are like this We have a larger full width totally enclosed front porch that when finished will have a steel security type of screen door. Then our normal reinforced front door with hidden hinges (door opens in).

In the back the rear door has no knob or anyway to even pull it open on the outside. It has numerous HD Barrel locks on the inside with a steel reinforced jam.

Even if someone were to get past the door (the window is long and very narrow with steel bars) they will be in the laundry room with another secure entry door between them and the house itself.

The idea is to give the occupants of the house time to react to a break in. I hate being rushed when I am trying to find my pants and decide which firearm to use to defend my little castle.

 

[Alexx1401]

When I was a kid I lived on the family farm (sold about ten years ago).

At that time one of the houses on the farm was situated on a corner with a stop sign (the road has since been re-routed).

Several times a month someone would decide they would drive across our lawn to cut the corner - usually late at night. It left big ruts in the lawn.

My uncle got some 2x12s, and drove huge nails through the boards, and painted them green, then put the boards out on the lawn.

Usually on weekends, there would be at least one car a ways down the road with one or more flat tires.

Eventually we planted trees and shrubs such that they would damage a car that drove across our lawn. Today the corner is gone, replaced by a roundabout, but the powers that be would look with disapproval on putting out stakes in a ditch or moat and it would invite a lawsuit.

If I had to do that now I think I would be doing some "plumbing" and have a nice ditch run across there. Maybe some pipe laying in it not done. Let them drive into that and then complain that they ran into a ditch while driving across my front yard.

 

[mkwerx]

My idea of the ideal home would be one of the "secure home" - I've always liked the homes recessed into a hillside. Of course having multiple entries/exits would be important for evac purposes - but the benefits of more constant temperatures, more secure from most natural or manmade disasters - and a lower visibility profile all interest me. Having family in the midwest, we'd vacation in Kansas, Oklahoma, and rarely Arkansas when I was a kid. I remember occasionally seeing such homes built into the side of a hill - and was told that they were done so to protect against tornadoes. That's when I first got interested into the designs.

Reinforced concrete walls, steel security doors, security shutters and the layered approach would all be integrated into my so-called "dream home". One thing I like is an enclosed porch - a place where you can open things up and sit with a gentle breeze and sip a drink, just watching the world unfold before you or be still with your own thoughts, while at the same time being able to close it up and give you a little buffer at the same time like Mark W mentioned above.

A moat would certainly be on the list of security measures if the ideal site could be located - and it would be easy to explain away - I love to fish, so said moat would be large and deep enough to support healthy fish populations - though finding a site that had a hill large enough to build a house into, yet small enough to encircle in water is more or less a fantasy. So instead of a moat, then maybe a couple ponds on either side of the driveway to at least limit angles of approach, which would then allow for bulking up security measures from other angles. Additional benefit to a well stocked pond - in a SHTF scenario, if one is not prone to over-fish the thing, you have a ready, sustainable supply of meat. Bass and bluegill/crappie would be my mix of choice for a few reasons - one they tolerate a much wider range of water types and temperatures than trout, they spawn better in still water (trout generally prefer to spawn in moving water), the bass help control the bluegill populations, which overpopulate as a defensive measure against extinction. The bluegill / crappie would be the primary source of meat when harvested, though taking the occasional bass to eat wouldn't hurt. And I prefer fishing for bass & panfish more than trout, generally speaking. Might stock a few channel catfish in there for good measure, as they have the same qualities bass & panfish do regarding hardiness, and they would help the bass keep the panfish population in check.

Having a relatively narrow driveway (say, 10 feet) which could have large, heavy barriers moved into place to block vehicle traffic if necessary would be good as well. Think something like large diameter pipe filled with concreate. Would require a tractor to install.

Property taxes on such a place would likely be insane... Couldn't build it in Oregon, though if I had the stupid amount of cash to build such a place, Oregon would be the last place I would want to be.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Hmm I wonder if such an elegant moat design could work on a far smaller scale in Oregon..... Call it a landscape feature, maybe only 3-5 points instead of the overlapping flower shape here, and with each point having a slight rise and a small pit or something to the causeways to the central "keep" which would also overlook the points, maybe utilize the same Ha-Ha wall on the central island, then you could have 360 degree coverage against ground troops... plant trees on the outer edges of the property, and on the main island, but still keeping clear lanes of fire... as for air defense well; this is really gonna be academic

 

[Camelfilter]

View attachment 345730

Hmm I wonder if such an elegant moat design could work on a far smaller scale in Oregon..... Call it a landscape feature, maybe only 3-5 points instead of the overlapping flower shape here, and with each point having a slight rise and a small pit or something to the causeways to the central "keep" which would also overlook the points, maybe utilize the same Ha-Ha wall on the central island, then you could have 360 degree coverage against ground troops... plant trees on the outer edges of the property, and on the main island, but still keeping clear lanes of fire... as for air defense well; this is really gonna be academic

Brilliant! Brilliant! BRILLIANT!

 

[CamoDeafie]

Say what you want, Mssr Vauban had some good ideas, if a bit in the geometric elegance.... His ideas was basically the side of the main polygon (the longest uninterrupted wall section) would be equal to the maximum effective range of the firearms of the time..... and then the arrowhead points would be where cannons and smaller guns would be situated, but still within range of the walls' defenders, and there was the question of counter-battery fire, so he designed in an idea where the inner wall defenders could concentrate fire into the pits of the arrowheads should invaders gain them... also the curved section between the stems was for ricochet fire with round balls if invaders managed to get close to the walls.

 

[Camelfilter]

Say what you want, Mssr Vauban had some good ideas, if a bit in the geometric elegance.... His ideas was basically the side of the main polygon (the longest uninterrupted wall section) would be equal to the maximum effective range of the firearms of the time..... and then the arrowhead points would be where cannons and smaller guns would be situated, but still within range of the walls' defenders, and there was the question of counter-battery fire, so he designed in an idea where the inner wall defenders could concentrate fire into the pits of the arrowheads should invaders gain them... also the curved section between the stems was for ricochet fire with round balls if invaders managed to get close to the walls.

...Hence...Brilliant!

a bit of Monty was placed in there for a bit of levity is all.

 

[Camelfilter]

The problem landowners in Oregon face when thinking about water features, are the current Oregon regulations as it applies to water. All water is public...or somesuch.

On top of that, one can get oneself into some serious trouble if diverting ANY waterway. Heck even the development of catchment ponds utilizing only rainwater has caused trouble for some.

 

[CamoDeafie]

True, however this is why I have said "landscape feature". the same design could be applied to a dry-ditch system, which may be more beneficial as you could utilize the flat grassy areas for gardening, orchards, pasture, or some such.... Actually I've been thinking a bit more on this... what if one was to construct a compound such that the interior is basically the same as a frontier log fort like the old West, but instead of log walls, its earthen and slopes down, shaped like the Vauban arrowhead stars but 4 pointed, this way, your "bunkhouse" towers could be simple square shed structures and the main house is divided into 4 sections in a rectangle, with the roof sloping down from the walkways between the bunkhouses, and this would enable the creation of a nice little courtyard with a fountain or something in the middle (or a fire pit) for entertaining, while the outside is basically sloped and not easily seen from a distance, you could extrapolate that to have a double tiered terracing system with 4 more detached points, although there is always one weakness, that of the garage/driveway, how does one best defend it? I would personally make the driveway in an L shape entering into one corner of the structure, and have an additional "detached arrowhead" overlooking the bend of the driveway. Utilizing security cameras and sensors, you eliminate the need for a garrison
Could use the bunkhouse structures as one bedroom, one den/study, one studio for exercising, and one dining room, while having the main structure below being for additional sleep, kitchen, bathrooms, storerooms and the garage.

 

[Camelfilter]

Drive would be a small challenge, but as you mention there are ways to deal with it.

If it's allready built drive, you could add some Hesco type barriers (disguised as landscape feature) using some removed earth from the other landscape features, zigzagging the drive. Downside to a Hesco type barrier is cover on the other side.

That cement filled pipe idea is a decent one, not much cover. Less cover would be having the cement filled pipe inserted vertically, provided you'd have the heavy equipment available.

 

[The Heretic]

That cement filled pipe idea is a decent one, not much cover. Less cover would be having the cement filled pipe inserted vertically, provided you'd have the heavy equipment available.

I've mentioned it before in other threads, but an adjunctive or alterative outer barrier against vehicles is strong posts (at least thick timber, preferably at least schedule 120 pipe or thicker filled with concrete) with a thick (at least 3/8") cable running through the pipe, from pipe to pipe. Draw it as tight as possible. Two runs of cable would be better. This would be resistant to even heavy vehicles.

Hiding it by letting brush such as brambles grow over it is good (I know of one orchard we used to rent and farm, adjacent to an S-curve prone to people running off the road and people stealing fruit where the current owners have piled their yearly prunings and let brambles grow over them to serve as a barrier to cars and theft).

I have a forest protecting my house - in the winter only a tracked or other specialized vehicle could get through there because the soil is very soft - any street legal vehicle would get stuck in the mud (I know this from experience). Trying to run through there at speed would result in a collision with large thick (3'+) trees even though I had them thinned.

Another alternative would be steel tank barriers hidden in brush, but beware the liability if there is any chance that a vehicle could accidentally run off the road and hit one. If I had a good ag drainage ditch (ten feet wide by 5'+ deep) and then a steep run-up to the land, I would consider a tank barrier line because it would be very unlikely that someone could encounter it accidentally.

 

[cigars]

If you've ever been down on the border, it isn't a "walk in the park" in urban areas. Many illegals break legs and incur lacerations scaling the 20 foot fence in the San Ysidro/Tijuana International Boundary fence.

When first erected, much of the fence with doors built into the fence so the GSA workers could maintain it. (Remember, we gave up 3 feet of our sovereign land so that the fence could be maintained without violating Mexican sovreignty). The fence was made from corrugated steel sheets the Government used for aircraft landing strips during the Korean and Vietnam wars. These were staked into place.

I have watched "drug mules" with 20 Kilogram bales of Marijuana scale the fence and run from east of the northbound lanes of Mexican Federal Highway #1 toward downtown San Ysidro. The answer to this is the added barrier of the pit with the sharpened .75" Rebar spaced unevenly across a 45-foot trench, with a strategic walkway for fence/wall maintenance. Sensors on/along these walkways would deter intruders from attempting to use them for drug trafficking. There are non-lethal "booby-trap" options for detection (ground sensors, cameras, infrared motion detection devices, etc.). There are ways to accomplish this.

Although your post is compelling I have no idea what it has to do with my comment. All of my border experience was on the former Communist block borders between West Germany, East Germany and Czechoslovakia. On those borders, the Communists used mine fields and hung anti personnel mines along the fences. However, this also has nothing to do with my original comment. Cheers.