International Handgun Presented to President Trump

[Slobray]

Most people have 3 options when it comes to voting.
1) Vote Democratic
2) Vote Republican
3) Don't vote (or vote 3rd party)

People who are enthusiastically for their candidate tend to vote for that candidate. People who are unenthusiastic don't vote or vote 3rd party. The danger of the pro-gun community constantly harping on the imperfections of their own candidates (e.g. Trump & Buehler) is that it reduces the enthusiasm of voters who would otherwise be committed to voting for those pro-gun candidates. You can argue that maybe they aren't really pro-gun candidates, but they certainly aren't the anti-gun candidates who will win if we don't vote for our own candidates due to doubt induced apathy. "What's the use?" "We can't win?" "It's all rigged." Those thoughts echoing around the pro-gun community ensure victory for the anti's by discouraging pro-gun voting.

My take a way from your statement: Is that you think that we should ignore all transgressions against the 2A, by politicians (e.g. Trump & Buehler) that say they support the 2A, then turn around and screw us with anti-gun laws? Instead of putting pressure on them, telling them that we disagree with their anti-gun behavior and trying to get them to change, we should just shut our mouth's, bend over, take it and say "thank you sir, may I have another"? All because they don't support as much gun control as the other person? Is that about right?

For what it's worth..... I have been voting in every election since I was 18 and know all to well, that there aren't any politicians that I 100% agree with and how voting 3rd party (especially in WA) improves the chances for the anti-gun democrats to win; so I am forced to vote for the lesser of the two evils. In my area, all democrat politicians are equally anti-gun, so I have to write my name for many of the county races that have only democrats on the ballot, just so someone pro-gun gets a vote.

I kind of get where you're going with the above, but I don't think hiding/ignoring "their own candidates" anti-gun actions helps either.



Ray

 

[ZigZagZeke]

My take a way from your statement: Is that you think that we should ignore all transgressions against the 2A, by politicians (e.g. Trump & Buehler) that say they support the 2A, then turn around and screw us with anti-gun laws? Instead of putting pressure on them, telling them that we disagree with their anti-gun behavior and trying to get them to change, we should just shut our mouth's, bend over, take it and say "thank you sir, may I have another"? All because they don't support as much gun control as the other person? Is that about right?

For what it's worth..... I have been voting in every election since I was 18 and know all to well, that there aren't any politicians that I 100% agree with and how voting 3rd party (especially in WA) improves the chances for the anti-gun democrats to win; so I am forced to vote for the lesser of the two evils. In my area, all democrat politicians are equally anti-gun, so I have to write my name for many of the county races that have only democrats on the ballot, just so someone pro-gun gets a vote.

I kind of get where you're going with the above, but I don't think hiding/ignoring "their own candidates" anti-gun actions helps either.



Ray

You don't have to hide your criticisms. Sure, be vocal with the candidates themselves about your disappointments. But the vehement public condemnations of both Trump and Buehler as traitors and turncoats, for example, expressed in public pro-gun forums read by thousands, but which they themselves will never read, only hurts our get out the vote efforts. Would Buehler have testified yesterday in favor of SB978? Where would we be if Hillary had won?

 

[Nosferatu]

Yet if an American citizen tried to bring a gun into the White House.....

IIRC, Jesse James presented Trump a hideous custom 1911 after he took office.

 

[Slobray]

You don't have to hide your criticisms. Sure, be vocal with the candidates themselves about your disappointments. But the vehement public condemnations of both Trump and Buehler as traitors and turncoats, for example, expressed in public pro-gun forums read by thousands, but which they themselves will never read, only hurts our get out the vote efforts. Would Buehler have testified yesterday in favor of SB978? Where would we be if Hillary had won?

You know that Trump loves adoration and when he suggested gun confiscation without due process and to raise the age for all gun sales to 21, tens of millions of us called him out publicly for it, he realized he was losing points with his base and backed off. I believe that if we could do that more often, we could stop more of "our candidates" from passing anti-gun laws.

If Clinton had won, I think we'd be pretty much in the same boat, except for the judiciary. I will give Trump credit for most of his judicial nominees/appointments: Trump-appointed judges are shifting the country's most politically conservative circuit court further to the right
Feinstein fumes as Trump administration pushes forward with 9th Circuit nominees without consulting her

As I said most........
In New York, federal judicial nominations strike bipartisan balance

At least three of Trump nominations to district courts in New York were Obama-era holdovers who Trump renominated.

Kavanaugh, Roberts side with liberal judges on Planned Parenthood case
Brett Kavanaugh begins Supreme Court tenure cautiously as fellow conservatives push for change

As for the Knute...............



Yes, I believe he would have testified in support of SB 978.



Ray

 

[ZigZagZeke]

You know that Trump loves adoration and when he suggested gun confiscation without due process and to raise the age for all gun sales to 21, tens of millions of us called him out publicly for it, he realized he was losing points with his base and backed off. I believe that if we could do that more often, we could stop more of "our candidates" from passing anti-gun laws.

If Clinton had won, I think we'd be pretty much in the same boat, except for the judiciary. I will give Trump credit for most of his judicial nominees/appointments: Trump-appointed judges are shifting the country's most politically conservative circuit court further to the right
Feinstein fumes as Trump administration pushes forward with 9th Circuit nominees without consulting her

As I said most........
In New York, federal judicial nominations strike bipartisan balance

Kavanaugh, Roberts side with liberal judges on Planned Parenthood case
Brett Kavanaugh begins Supreme Court tenure cautiously as fellow conservatives push for change

As for the Knute...............

View attachment 565844

Yes, I believe he would have testified in support of SB 978.



Ray

So Brown is better for us than Buehler? Those were the two realistic choices.

Except for the judiciary? Yeah, there is that small point. Right now it may be our only salvation.

Be careful how you analyze decisions about whether the court takes cases or not. Often times the court rejects a case even though the justices involved would love to hear it and rule favorably for appellant. It's like a batter rejecting a knuckle ball in order to wait for a fast ball that's in the strike zone. Sometimes a justice wants to prove a point and the case at hand makes a poor example of that point.

 

[Slobray]

So Brown is better for us than Buehler? Those were the two realistic choices.

Except for the judiciary? Yeah, there is that small point. Right now it may be our only salvation.

Be careful how you analyze decisions about whether the court takes cases or not. Often times the court rejects a case even though the justices involved would love to hear it and rule favorably for appellant. It's like a batter rejecting a knuckle ball in order to wait for a fast ball that's in the strike zone. Sometimes a justice wants to prove a point and the case at hand makes a poor example of that point.

I'm not saying that Brown is better than Buehler, because she isn't (especially on every other issue), I'm just saying that he is a little less anti-gun than her and OR would have still gotten hammered with more gun control either way.

Thanks for the analogy about judges taking a case, I hadn't thought of it that way. It makes a lot of sense, except for 2A cases, as "shall not be infringed", makes every one of them a slow softball right over the plate.



Ray

 

[Hemlock]

If I would have known my opening posting was going to cause such a heated discussion I wouldn't have. I just thought it would be nice to see that some countries still are proud of their craftsmanship. Firearms were/are a way of displaying a countries pride in workmanship. Many heads-of-states of by gone centuries have exchange articles of war. Our President can't keep it. It belongs to our country. It's the law. Who cares if he's wants to shoot it or keep it on his desk. Who cares if you think it ugly. It's the time the presenting country put into making it. The ability to produce it. The message it conveys from one head of state to another. It had nothing to do with pro or con Second Amendment. Just enjoy a thing of beauty, whether it's your cup of tea or not.
It's better then when someone gave an iPod to the Queen on his first visit.
OK. I'm done.

 

[SUPER X]

If I was forced to live in Europe and to have one country of EU citizenship, it would be Czech Republic without a doubt. They also have some of the prettiest ladies in Europe I am told

They make some very nice guns. (pretty woman and nice guns . ) it might be the place I immigrate to

 

[tac]

After TWO outright betrayals of the principals enshrined in the 1689 Bill of Rights, the 1986 and 1997 firearms bans, I'm a little leery of anything that comes out of the mouth of any politician.

However, living in a mainly rural county has a few benefits, like a Member of Parliament who appreciates which side of his bread is buttered, especially in a county with 19,000 registered gun owners and an unknown number with airguns that do not require any kind of certification.

As a result, our MP, who is of the Conservative Party [nothing like your interpretation of conservative, BTW] is Chairman of the British Shooting Sports Council, and enjoys game and deer shooting with the best of 'em.

Seeking fairer legislation

​

Working with a range of Government departments and agencies, the Council addresses proposals which may affect sport shooting and its supporting industries across the United Kingdom. It keeps in direct touch with national politicians of all parties and endeavours to help them understand the sport, for example through facilitating visits to the National Shooting Centre at Bisley and through giving evidence to House of Commons Committees.

BSSC maintains particularly close working relations with Home Office Ministers and officials over a wide range of matters relating to firearms legislation. It works with the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on wildlife management issues and game laws, the Department of Transport over movement of sporting firearms and ammunition, the Department of Culture, Media and Sport on the Olympic Games and target shooting, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office about arms trade issues and the Health and Safety Executive on the regulations affecting shooters' use of propellant powders and explosives. Increasingly it is becoming drawn into the work of the UK's devolved administrations.

These are the points made by this council - which advises government on firearms-related matters] -

• Shooters spend £2.5 billion each year on goods and services
• Shooting supports the equivalent of 74,000 full time jobs
• Shooting is worth £2 billion to the UK economy (GVA)
• Shooting is involved in the management of two-thirds of the rural land area
• There are 4 million (est) airgun owners – of whom 1.6 m shoot live quarry
• 600,000 people in the UK shoot live quarry, clay pigeons or targets
• Shoot providers spend nearly £250 million a year on conservation
• Shooters spend 3.9 million work days on conservation – that's the equivalent of 16,000 full-time jobs
• Two million hectares are actively managed for conservation as a result of shooting

He gets MY vote because he actively does just what it says on the box.

 

[Cucv]

Can his tiny hands grip the slide enough to rack it?