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Had a gun debate today after Obamas latest comment about gun control.

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Russianfist, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. Russianfist

    Russianfist Sweet home, Oregon Active Member

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    I need to note that I am a moderate democrat who hates gun control and the socialist agendas being forced on us by our current administration. I am however pro choice,pro middlechoice class and if someone is gay so what, thats their choice.

    Now that I have that out of the way ;)

    Yesterday the president made a comment that left me uncomfortable and gave a glimpse of the future that is very bad! The presidents remark was blah,blah,blah, I feel an AK-47 belongs in the hands of a soldier,not civilian, blah,blah,blah........Wait....WHAT?!?

    "I believe an AK-47 belongs in the hands of a soldier,not civilians"

    So,I posted this to my facebook page with my opinion that someone should tell the president that under the constitution all Americans are a civilian army to protect the country from ALL enemies "foreign or domestic"!!!

    A very conservative friend chimed in and told me that their is no reason that anyone should be able to own a gun that will shoot that much ammo or that powerful.

    I simply responded by saying that "most cars built or sold in the USA have a speedometer that read 120 MPH or or more but most states max speed limit is 65 MPH. Just like a gun a car ia deadly in the wrong hands only its alot easier to get a car.
    I think that if we take away any gun rights now then we should also stop build cars that go fast and put governors on all cars running today to make sure we are all nice and safe!

    I havent had a reply yet but somehow doubt I will. I just see that its so ironic that others dont open their eyes and ask these questions?

    What happened in Colorado was very tragic but imagine how tragic it would be if you couldnt defend your family or home?

    So sad :(
     
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  2. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I just had a facebook conversation with a much younger 2nd cousin. It revolved around the recent shooting in Colorado. He didn't understand why the public needed an "assault rifle" as it was certainly overkill for hunting, as it was so powerful.
    This is a perfect example how someone who has absolutely no experience with firearms is quickly led to believe that an "assault rifle" is overly powerful and shouldn't be in the hands of a typical civilian.
    Sad.
    However, his late grandfather was a WWII Purple Heart winner and owned firearms himself. (something I doubt my cousin knows too much about) I invited him to have a sit-down with me to discuss my views and to go shooting with me! Can't hurt to try some honey, huh?
     
  3. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    ask your friend which is more powerful a AK-47 or the most common deer hunting rifle in the USA (something chambered in 30-06) and then tell him the average hunting rifle has almost twice the POWER of the average so called Assault rifle ammo.

    .223/5.56 has 1,325 ft·lbf of energy at the muzzle with a 63gr bullet at 3,070 ft/sec (30-06 is almost three times the POWER)

    7.62 x 39 has 1,516.6 ft·lbf of energy at the muzzle with a 154gr bullet. at 2,104 ft/sec

    30-06 has 2,820 ft·lbf of energy at the muzzle with a 150gr bullet at 2,910 ft/sec.
     
  4. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    A true 5.56 should have more energy than a .223 as the 5.56 is loaded to higher pressures with the case holding slightly less powder. They are not interchangeable as some people think. There are a few true .223's out there (like the Mini-14 target) that specifically shouldn't shoot a 5.56, however most are chambered so they can shoot both.
     
  5. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    Would that be American Soldiers? Considering the AK is not a US issued weapon.... But we will not go there. Best advice? Avoid any and all debates with antis completely.
     
  6. giddyupgo55

    giddyupgo55 Vernonia Active Member

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    No matter how you try to explain it, those who are against people owning guns of any kind will always have a closed mind. They don't get it, it is not the guns that are the problem, but they them selves are afraid of the people who own them.
     
  7. Glockman19

    Glockman19 Hillsboro Active Member

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    I think some of the "scared of guns" is from the media. You always hear all the bad things that happen involving guns but very rarely if at all hear the positive things involving guns. Therefore anyone that is not into guns only hears about all the bad and nothing of the good guns can do. So they have a one-sided opinion based off media exposure. We need to perhaps try to show the good side of being able to own a gun with conversation and maybe some hands on experiences. :twocents:
     
  8. Mikej

    Mikej Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    I think that you have about as much chance of changing a true anti firearm persons mind, as you have of changing someones mind that believes a gay person CHOOSES to be gay.

    Mike
     
  9. Grunwald

    Grunwald Out of that nut job colony of Seattle, WA Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. Ask them questions and let them admit themselves that they have no clue as to what they are talking about. The point that hunting rifles are a lot more powerful and accurate is a good way to lead the conversation. Ask if they know what calibers these 'assult' rifles use and then ask if they know what calibers are most used in hunting rifles. Don't just tell them, ask them. If you tell them then they will not have the opportunity to say the do not know.
     
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  10. giddyupgo55

    giddyupgo55 Vernonia Active Member

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    While I agree that some people would change there outlook on guns, if given the right information, there is always going to be those who will dead set aqainst others having guns. It does not help that the news media always puts a negitive spin on guns, and the people who use them to commit crime, and nothing positive about those that use them to help themselves or other people.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
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  11. OsterAC

    OsterAC Tacoma, WA/Silverton, OR New Member

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    My GF/future fiancee is Japanese. She lives in Japan still. Think about that for a minute. Japan. Where guns are outlawed unless you are an "accomplished sport shooter."

    She really didn't like my gun closet. I mean, she had tears in her eyes at one point. But, when I explained my reasoning for why I owned guns, explained what each was used for specifically, and explained why I never ever plan on using them against anything living, she seemed ok. When I took her up into the mountians, I mentioned that I usually go there to do shooting practice, and when I hike I usually take one for protection from bears and such.
    She asked, "Do you expect to see any today?"
    "Well, maybe, I never know. There are some big black bears up here and big cats."
    "Did you bring your gun?"
    "No.... you don't like guns, remember? I didn't want you to feel unhappy because I had a gun with me today."
    "You could have brought one, honey, it's ok..."

    So I think putting guns in perspective helps. People afraid of guns are usually afraid of guns until they need one. Put them in a few situations where they can feel the need of a gun and you can convert them. Take them downtown back ally seattle at 3am... mention how safe you would feel with your CC on you...if you had brought it. Take them out in the woods and talk a lot about bears and cougars. And take them target shooting! Blow up some clays or carbonated drinks. Just don't talk about how big a hole your gun makes or how dead they make things.
     
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  12. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    The spec's I quoted were for NATO 5.56mm 63gr rounds it was the highest energy numbers I found quickly on line.
     
  13. davemata

    davemata Spokane, WA Well-Known Member

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    QFT. They've already made up their mind, the best you can do is just show others how wrong they are, even though they'd be howling how all your available data was bought by the NRA.

    You'd have more luck teaching a goat to parkour.
     
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  14. lazerblazer

    lazerblazer Portland Active Member

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    Goats practicing parkour haha kills me!

    Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2
     
  15. acp

    acp Tangent Active Member

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    Hollywood glorifies violence and yet they are the worst anti gunners around! Is it me or did this shooting happen a week before the u.n small arms deal for a reason?
     
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  16. hermannr

    hermannr Okanogan Highlands Well-Known Member

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    I like it: My wife is not an anti but every time we walk up to the mailbox (1/2 mile), and she sees fresh bear sign (this time of year that is any sign full of berries), the first thing she does is look at my hip and say "you do have you gun with you?"
     
  17. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    Herself doesn't enjoy the firearms the way I do, but can shoot (well) with both rifle and pistol. She doesn't normally carry off the place (she figures why, everyone she is with does)...Haven't quite got her to understand bad things happen and there are no guarantees in life.
     
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  18. Hook686

    Hook686 Northern California Active Member

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    A soldiers AK-47 is a select fire weapon with auto-load capability. I too believe these belong in the hands of soldiers and not civilians. I constantly read of folks on these gun oriented web sites commenting how they do not trust the guys on the range near them to be safe. You going to trust these same untrustables with auto-loaders ?
     
  19. Hook686

    Hook686 Northern California Active Member

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    Perhaps it is sad. Perhaps it is not sad. 'Words do not mean, people mean.' Do you understand what he ment by 'Powerful' ? Maybe he was referring to the ability to fire 100 rounds without reloading as 'Powerful'. A deer hunter does not need the ability to fire 100 rounds without a reload, so he might be right on that point. Perhaps. I am constantly amazed how folks on both sides of any issue seem to enjoy defining what people on the other side really mean. Some states once, maybe some still do, limit a hunter to a 5 round magazine. I never heard any great complaint from hunters that bought these rifles. It seems it is the folks that want these illusions of a military assault rifle that harbor the need for high capacity magazines. For what purpose ? Most likely, in my opinion, is so that they will not feel undergunned in a gun fight. Perhaps this is what causes fear in your 2nd cousin's mind ... getting caught in a gun fight that he is unprepared for, and does not want to prepare for. Maybe you can do so reflective listening to your 2nd cousin and try to understand where he is coming from. I doubt you will influence too many people by simply stating that their thoughts and ideas are 'Sad'.
     
  20. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    You are exactly where I am politically and socially. I have posted more than once in various places (like Facebook) a picture of 5 or 6 rounds of ammunition of different caliber cartridges ranging from .50 to .30-06 to .223 to .22, similar to this one:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ison.jpg/300px-Rifle_cartridge_comparison.jpg

    I then ask, which of these is one of those super powerful assault rifle cartridges? After everybody guesses wrong I explain that the "super powerful" assault rifle cartridge is nearly the smallest one of the bunch and that the .30-06 is the most popular big game hunting cartridge. This is the quickest way I know of to disarm the misinformed know-it-all.