Gun Control - Portland Has Traffic Cones - Denver is Blocking Food Trucks

[titsonritz]

Gun control is bad. Fine. So cities come up with other things to curb crime, and those are bad, too.

Are we then back to mass incarceration and draconian sentences? They don't do anything to curb crime, but always so popular among people who don't want to do anything else.

Let the punishment fit the crime.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Thank you for assuming things about me....

This makes sense until you realize that crime and criminals don't exist in some sort of vacuum

To be blunt...this is complete and utter BS.
Just because something is there...does not mean that someone has to steal it.

This seems so similar to the guns stolen from cars stuff. Everyone wants to be blameless for imposing no security over their guns, but thieves wouldn't break into cars if they didn't keep finding valuables in them.

I never said to run a sociiety on blame...
I am saying that laws that only affect those who ain't the problem are worthless in preventing crime.

You can't run a society on blame.

Since I now know your views , as well as your method of so called discussion...and disagree with both....
Don't bother replying to me...as I won't engage with you any longer.
Its a waste of time and thread counts / posts.
Andy

 

[Lazyfaire]

And don't get out of bed.

And pull the covers up, because...its "cover"

 

[Lazyfaire]

This makes sense until you realize that crime and criminals don't exist in some sort of vacuum. They are part of our society, they became criminals because of a range of factors in our society and they commit crimes in environments that our society provides. There is no way of drawing some obvious line between where criminals come from and everything else.

This seems so similar to the guns stolen from cars stuff. Everyone wants to be blameless for imposing no security over their guns, but thieves wouldn't break into cars if they didn't keep finding valuables in them.

The food truck owners aren't to blame for the problem, but the habit of having clusters of them clearly puts too many different kinds of people in too small an uncontrolled area. So spreading the trucks out resolves a "crowd control" problem.

You can't run a society on blame.

So as I read and reread your posts, you are countering what others say but you never say just what you think is the right thing to do in this situation. Lots of criticism but nothing constructive put forward.
Try this:
If you carry any weapon during a crime, no plea deal and add 6 months to the sentence
If you pull it that's brandishing, add 1 year
if you use it (or fire it) and hurt someone, add 3 years
If you kill someone, add 25 to life.

It could be a gun, a knife, a bat or club, a piece of metal it doesn't matter. Anything used as a weapon IS a weapon.

I'll bet you never liked mandatory sentences either.

The criminals who loot and burn the only grocery store in their neighborhood are the ones who create the food desert. The grocers won't come back and its not their fault. You CAN put the blame right where it belongs>> right on those who do the criminal acts.

I agree with @Andy54Hawken. Nuff said

 

[Camelfilter]

Everyone wants to be blameless for imposing no security over their guns, but thieves wouldn't break into cars if they didn't keep finding valuables in them.

Thieves wouldn't break into cars if the punishment for getting caught & convicted of doing such was swift, sure & severe.

Somewhere in time it has become accepted that criminals commit crime without repercussions. Or comical repercussions if there are any.

This teaches criminals that crime is acceptable.

The criminal justice system should be about teaching criminals that crime is never acceptable.

Police/LE do an excellent job (IMO) catching crimnals, then the criminal justice system fails everyone except the criminals.

 

[RX-79G]

So as I read and reread your posts, you are countering what others say but you never say just what you think is the right thing to do in this situation. Lots of criticism but nothing constructive put forward.
Try this:
If you carry any weapon during a crime, no plea deal and add 6 months to the sentence
If you pull it that's brandishing, add 1 year
if you use it (or fire it) and hurt someone, add 3 years
If you kill someone, add 25 to life.

It could be a gun, a knife, a bat or club, a piece of metal it doesn't matter. Anything used as a weapon IS a weapon.

I'll bet you never liked mandatory sentences either.

The criminals who loot and burn the only grocery store in their neighborhood are the ones who create the food desert. The grocers won't come back and its not their fault. You CAN put the blame right where it belongs>> right on those who do the criminal acts.

I agree with @Andy54Hawken. Nuff said

We already do all those things, the prisons are overflowing, nothing is changing.

Thieves wouldn't break into cars if the punishment for getting caught & convicted of doing such was swift, sure & severe.

Somewhere in time it has become accepted that criminals commit crime without repercussions. Or comical repercussions if there are any.

This teaches criminals that crime is acceptable.

The criminal justice system should be about teaching criminals that crime is never acceptable.

Police/LE do an excellent job (IMO) catching crimnals, then the criminal justice system fails everyone except the criminals.

We incarcerate people more than any other nation on earth. Where do you get this attitude that criminals aren't punished enough to make an impression?


My response to this topic was neither to defend Portland's policies nor suggest what should happen, but to point out that the default attitude on this and similar forums is that no one should do anything. You guys are against everything except longer prison sentences because there is a myth that deterrence actually works. In the land of the free, people that become criminals don't think of themselves as having a great deal to lose.

Don't bother replying to me...as I won't engage with you any longer.
Its a waste of time and thread counts / posts.

It certainly is. It is entirely clear from our interactions that you will call me a troll for posting something essentially identical to what you would post a Like to: https://www.northwestfirearms.com/t...fire-in-oregon-locals-tie-him-to-tree.421175/

 

[Andy54Hawken]

It certainly is. It is entirely clear from our interactions that you will call me a troll for posting something essentially identical to what you would post a Like to: https://www.northwestfirearms.com/t...fire-in-oregon-locals-tie-him-to-tree.421175/

If I ever respond to you...it will be direct like I am doing so now.
In addition , if I wanted to call you anything that would also be direct so there would be no doubt that I am talking to you or about you.

The thread you linked me to...has nothing in it where I said anything about you.

Again to be clear...if I want to say something to you or about you....You will have no doubt about it.
As it will be direct , clear and not open to interpretation.
Andy

 

[RX-79G]

One of the biggest problems the US has is that we all seem to essentially not care about breaking the law as long as there aren't any immediate consequences. Posts on this forum routinely fantasize about the use of criminal violence against those we disagree with, plans to violate firearms laws and the hope that society will collapse.

Why do we have gangs? In large part because "regular" American's pump well over $100 billion annually into the illegal drug trade, but our reaction to hearing about someone snorting coke is "that guy parties too hard". No, that guy is supporting gang violence and organized crime - yet virtually no one gets even a little pissed about Johnny Depp or Don Trump Jr. doing some blow.

So now Portland has to move the food trucks to make sure that the various heroin and meth 'trade unions' don't conflict because of their competition for upper and middle class discretionary spending.

 

[Lazyfaire]

We already do all those things, the prisons are overflowing, nothing is changing.


We incarcerate people more than any other nation on earth. Where do you get this attitude that criminals aren't punished enough to make an impression?


My response to this topic was neither to defend Portland's policies nor suggest what should happen, but to point out that the default attitude on this and similar forums is that no one should do anything. You guys are against everything except longer prison sentences because there is a myth that deterrence actually works. In the land of the free, people that become criminals don't think of themselves as having a great deal to lose.



It certainly is. It is entirely clear from our interactions that you will call me a troll for posting something essentially identical to what you would post a Like to: https://www.northwestfirearms.com/t...fire-in-oregon-locals-tie-him-to-tree.421175/

So what are YOU For? Still only telling us we are wrong thinking. I never mind arguing/discussing things with someone but if I wanted to feel corrected I'd go visit my ex-wife!

 

[RX-79G]

So what are YOU For? Still only telling us we are wrong thinking. I never mind arguing/discussing things with someone but if I wanted to feel corrected I'd go visit my ex-wife!

I'm for people having the attitude that they have a stake in their society, rather the problems are someone else's "fault" and are therefore someone else's problem.

If we can't get past that base belief that members don't have anything to do with what happens in their own culture, there is little point getting to specifics.

 

[msgriff]

We already do all those things, the prisons are overflowing, nothing is changing.

snip

The data says otherwise.
Recent Oregon prison population data:
12-31-2018 15,268
08-01-2022 12,212

The reduction of prison population is not due to some miraculous surge in criminals being reformed. It is directly a result of Kate Brown and the left releasing criminals back on our streets in the name "social justice" or some other Soros funded gaslighting.

 

[RX-79G]

The data says otherwise.
Recent Oregon prison population data:
12-31-2018 15,268
08-01-2022 12,212

The reduction of prison population is not due to some miraculous surge in criminals being reformed. It is directly a result of Kate Brown and the left releasing criminals back on our streets in the name "social justice" or some other Soros funded gaslighting.

That data leaves off all the Federal incarcerations and local jail data (pretrial detentions have climbed). However, 12,000 state prisoners is still double what it was in 1992 and three times what it was in 1982.

 

[Lazyfaire]

I'm for people having the attitude that they have a stake in their society, rather the problems are someone else's "fault" and are therefore someone else's problem.

If we can't get past that base belief that members don't have anything to do with what happens in their own culture, there is little point getting to specifics.

I could not agree more with your first line. Problem is that the people who commit crimes do so on the very people in their communities that we want to protect. They cannot seem to get ahead because they are afraid to live where they do. Now with the Defund the Police crowd in charge police cannot go into the neighborhoods to try and keep the people safe. They are attacked, spit on and villified. And then they get sued and not supported by their employers.

I have found low income areas and the people who live there very nice people who work hard are pleasant to talk with. I know, because I used to sell beer in those areas. They are not criminals, thieves or anything of the sort. But the rampant crime denies them the ability to live their lives in peace. They are afraid too, but have no where else to go.

 

[ma96782]

It's like the gun control issue.

What?

Yeah.......(well, some think) punish the law-abiding citizen because the criminal(s) should rule.

Do you really expect that a criminal will respect where he/she chooses to commit their crimes?

Oh wait...... gun-free zones are perfectly safe. Cough, cough......

BUT, But, but.....there is a low incidence of gun-related crimes at Federal, State, and a lot of Local Govt offices.

Yeah......and they get to have "armed" security at the door.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Andy54Hawken]

So these guys attempt a diamond heist.

If one were to apply the solution that Denver is using on the food trucks....
The answer to keep this heist from happening is to move the restaurant at the beginning of the movie.

Well , that would make for a much shorter , and less entertaining movie....

Just posting to lighten things up here in the thread...the above is not to be taken seriously.
Andy

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Just heard through the grapevine that a Portland man tried to recover his stolen car from homeless thieves. He called 911 for help to get it back and they said there is nothing they can do. Then he tried to take back his car himself and one of the scums shot him and now he is in the hospital with serious injuries. This is getting really bad. I'll post more info if I can get it. Haven't seen it in the news yet but I heard citizens who know the guy are meeting today to figure out what to do.

Only solution that I can see to our current state of no effective law enforcement personally:

 

[RX-79G]

I could not agree more with your first line. Problem is that the people who commit crimes do so on the very people in their communities that we want to protect. They cannot seem to get ahead because they are afraid to live where they do. Now with the Defund the Police crowd in charge police cannot go into the neighborhoods to try and keep the people safe. They are attacked, spit on and villified. And then they get sued and not supported by their employers.

I have found low income areas and the people who live there very nice people who work hard are pleasant to talk with. I know, because I used to sell beer in those areas. They are not criminals, thieves or anything of the sort. But the rampant crime denies them the ability to live their lives in peace. They are afraid too, but have no where else to go.

Right, they have nowhere else to go. Why is that? How about Federal supported red lining? Will anyone be punished for those policies? Will anyone be compensated because black GI's were denied GI bill support after WWII to go to college or buy a house?

Would you, as someone with a stake in our society, agree to a tax increase to try and level a past monetary inequality that lead to increased crime in your area? Why or why not?

 

[RX-79G]

Yeah.......(well, some think) punish the law-abiding citizen because the criminal(s) should rule.

Law abiding citizens are already being punished - they are the victims of crime. So everyone is already losing and everyone already has skin in the game.

 

[Certaindeaf]

It's like the gun control issue.

What?

Yeah.......(well, some think) punish the law-abiding citizen because the criminal(s) should rule.

Do you really expect that a criminal will respect where he/she chooses to commit their crimes?

Oh wait...... gun-free zones are perfectly safe. Cough, cough......

BUT, But, but.....there is a low incidence of gun-related crimes at Federal, State, and a lot of Local Govt offices.

Yeah......and they get to have "armed" security at the door.

Aloha, Mark

Exactly. There are hoplophobes and then there are traffic cone worshipers. Same thing really.

 

[41mag]

xxx