Got pulled over, cop asked me if I was carrying

[Born2hunt]

I know I have been asked and this was before I had a CHL...With that said I dont mind and offer to tell them if I am carrying only because I know they ask for their safety and no good comes from being an *** when dealing with LEO's. I find if I treat them with respect they almsot every time do the same. I know many deputies and they are just every day people who want to go home safely when their shift is over. My two anyways

 

[P7M13]

Friends' experience with Lake O police is less than savory, but IMO it's all in how you interact with the LEO. They're doing a job - lots of human garbage management - so being respectful and chill helps.
Whether or not they can search your car is always debatable, falling under the guise of legitimate suspicion. Don't frickin' lie - easiest way to get your a$$ in a sling.
LEO pulls me over, I pull WAY over (off the shoulder if possible), roll down the window and place my hands OUTSIDE the car door.
Been pulled over 8x in the last 5 years, usually for driving way too fast. 2 tickets.

I appreciate them, keep my nose clean and don't mind if they pull me over.

 

[hermannr]

Your carry does have something to do with a traffic stop. In Oregon, a CHL holder is clearly indicated on LEDS data. If the officer has time to run the RO's (registered owners) drivers license it will come up on his car on the MDT. He will then know if you have a CHL, and asking if you have a weapon is a completely legitimate question for officer safety. If he does not run it, then when they call out on traffic, the dispatcher will usually run the RO, and contact the officer and tell them the RO has a 35 Willy, or any warrants.

The officer in my opinion certainly has a right to know if you are carrying a weapon,since by virtue of your CHL you have agreed to that information begin available to the officer and that information being available on the LEDs system. Since I would just as soon let the officer know that I have a CHL, and that I have weapon on me, that is going a lot farther than forcing them to ask all the questions that you could have just as easily told them. As long as your not acting like some roided out road rage idiot, things should go just fine. By freely admitting that I have a CHl and a weapon on me, I have taken the first step to establish some credibility with the LEO, and then we can move on to what the contact or stop was about in the first place.

That is my personal opinion and it has worked well for me.

Can you tell me what is different between my having a pocket knife, or a bag of Ammonium Nitrate fertilizer and 20 gal of diesel in the back of my car.. and having a carry with you? All can be dangerous, and all can be innocent.

The US Supreme Court in Delaware V Prouse stated that random stops to check a license for a licensed activity are not legal. If it OC can be legal, it must be assumed to be legal unless something specific indicates otherwise. There must be a reason to invade a persons private affairs...ID, OR, and WA courts go even farther and say roadblock stops for license/insurance or DUI checks are NOT legal. Now, which is statistically more dangerous? DUI or the legal carry of a pistol? (or even illegal carry) I'll give you the answer...10X more people are killed or injured by DUI drivers than are killed or injured by any firearms, even when you include those carried illegally by prohibited persons.

If you are stopped for a traffic infraction, that you are armed, or not, has absolutely NOTHING to do with that traffic stop. Can the LEO access a database that shows you have a CPL? You bet, the legislature has made that provision. It should indicate to that officer that the CPL/CHL holder is a "good guy", and not someone they need to be concerned about. Can the officer ask if you have your CPL on your person? Sure, they can ask you anything, but that does not mean they need an answer. A traffic stop is just that, a traffic stop...it has NOTHING to do with my carry.

As to myself personally, I have never been asked for my CPL, and I have never been asked if I was armed, or to surrender my carry...and this is since I started to carry in July 1970. I OC. If they want to know if I'm armed they can look at my hip, I am not ashamed of my carry and I really do not care if they see it, or not. It is totally irrelevant to a traffic stop.

I am not ashamed that anyone can see that I carry. Only time my carry is covered is when I am wearing a coat because of the weather. When I am in the car, out of the car, even in church, my carry is out there for everyone to see, if they wish to pay attention.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Can you tell me what is different between my having a pocket knife, or a bag of Ammonium Nitrate fertilizer and 20 gal of diesel in the back of my car.. and having a carry with you? All can be dangerous, and all can be innocent.

The US Supreme Court in Delaware V Prouse stated that random stops to check a license for a licensed activity are not legal. If it OC can be legal, it must be assumed to be legal unless something specific indicates otherwise. There must be a reason to invade a persons private affairs...ID, OR, and WA courts go even farther and say roadblock stops for license/insurance or DUI checks are NOT legal. Now, which is statistically more dangerous? DUI or the legal carry of a pistol? (or even illegal carry) I'll give you the answer...10X more people are killed or injured by DUI drivers than are killed or injured by any firearms, even when you include those carried illegally by prohibited persons.

If you are stopped for a traffic infraction, that you are armed, or not, has absolutely NOTHING to do with that traffic stop. Can the LEO access a database that shows you have a CPL? You bet, the legislature has made that provision. It should indicate to that officer that the CPL/CHL holder is a "good guy", and not someone they need to be concerned about. Can the officer ask if you have your CPL on your person? Sure, they can ask you anything, but that does not mean they need an answer. A traffic stop is just that, a traffic stop...it has NOTHING to do with my carry.

As to myself personally, I have never been asked for my CPL, and I have never been asked if I was armed, or to surrender my carry...and this is since I started to carry in July 1970. I OC. If they want to know if I'm armed they can look at my hip, I am not ashamed of my carry and I really do not care if they see it, or not. It is totally irrelevant to a traffic stop.

I am not ashamed that anyone can see that I carry. Only time my carry is covered is when I am wearing a coat because of the weather, in the car, out of the car, even in church.

Well, the problem would arise when the officer spotted the knife, smelled the fuel oil, or spotted your weapon. The fact that he sees it, but you didn't inform him is bound to set off his "spidey sense". Contrary to popular belief, many law enforcement officers are FOR the 2nd amendment. Sounds like some of you would be in for quite the surprise if you took off your foil helmets and actually talked to a few or had a friend who was one.

 

[hermannr]

Well, the problem would arise when the officer spotted the knife, smelled the fuel oil, or spotted your weapon. The fact that he sees it, but you didn't inform him is bound to set off his "spidey sense". Contrary to popular belief, many law enforcement officers are FOR the 2nd amendment. Sounds like some of you would be in for quite the surprise if you took off your foil helmets and actually talked to a few or had a friend who was one.

As a small farmer I carry fertilizer and diesel in my car or PU frequently...never been asked for my blasters permit (BTW: I do have a blasters permit) I also carry a pocket knife all the time, and sometimes a holstered large folding knife. Lots of people carry knifes, it also has nothing to do with a traffic stop. Never been asked about them either. Never been asked about my carry, even when I was in the Tonasket City Council meeting, sitting right in front of the CoP for Tonasket.

Why do you guys feel that carry of a firearm is such a big deal that is so suspect you will be questioned/disarmed by LE? If you are not doing anything CRIMINAL it is none of their business, just like it is none of their business if my underwear are clean, or not.

 

[Nwcid]

Well, the problem would arise when the officer spotted the knife, smelled the fuel oil, or spotted your weapon. The fact that he sees it, but you didn't inform him is bound to set off his "spidey sense". Contrary to popular belief, many law enforcement officers are FOR the 2nd amendment. Sounds like some of you would be in for quite the surprise if you took off your foil helmets and actually talked to a few or had a friend who was one.

You make several ASSUMPTIONS here. So what if the officer spots the knife, or smelled fuel or spots the weapon? Hernannr even states he ALWAYS open carries so that means ANY LEO interaction he has had the gun has been visible. WHY does it have to be a problem to see these things? Do I have to give a complete inventory of my vehicle every time I am stopped?

I know many of us do have regular interactions with LEO. I for one do VERY often on professional, recreational and family levels.

 

[hermannr]

I want to add a couple general comments to this thread.

The US and the individual states follow British Common Law. There are a couple things about Common Law that we need to remember:

The first is: We are innocent unless PROVEN guilty. The burden of proof is on the government to prove guilt, not the individual to prove innocence.

a second assumption in Common Law: If it is not specifically prohibited in LAW, it is permitted. This is why ID, OR and WA (among other states) have unlicensed OC. Even without the protection of our state constitutions, there is no LAW that prohibits OC, so OC is legal. This is why you can can carry long gun in public...there is no LAW that states you may not.

Now, a bit different. A lot of LEOs do not know the law, they think they are THE LAW. Also some do not care what the law is, they think they are THE LAW. They are not THE LAW. THE LAW in WA starts with RCW, and in Oregon ORS. THAT is what counts, not what some person tells you (LE or not).

IN My personal experience is most LEOs try to do what is right, and they do not try to enforce their personal opinions. The ones that do try to inforce their own opinions need instruction, and sometimes that takes a Fed 1983 civil rights suit, but whatever, if you allow them to trample your rights it will only embolden them. Not good for anyone subsequent to your encounter. What I am trying to say is: KNOW THE LAW, and if your rights are trampled on by some officer "under color of law", do something about it. Don't just complain.

 

[JAFO]

I think it's best to keep emotion out of traffic stops. If an officer asks you if you have a gun it's either an emotional question based on his fear (rational or irrational) or he suspects you of a crime. There is no legal obligation to alleviate nor confirm his fears and there is no legal obligation to assist his investigation. There is especially no reason to "respect his authoritah" if he disrespects you enough to lie about it.

Replies about "the poor police officer has to deal with scum all day" is just a ploy to play on your emotions. Don't fall for it. Don't perpetuate the behavior. If the job is too scary for someone they can find some other job that isn't as scary.

It wouldn't be in your best interest to be rude but it also shouldn't be held against you if you cooperate only as much as legally obligated.

 

[Rotty]

Handgunlaw.us

Thanks for posting. I was in the process of researching different state gun laws of the states I frequent. The link you posted is MOST helpful.

 

[Bushman]

Here's my beef with telling them you have a firearms in the car. It turns into a longer traffic stop, and depending on how bored they are or how small the town is, they end up calling other units in to get in on the "excitement".

Then they stand there for 30 minutes AFTER running your serial number BSing with your gun in their hand, and give it back to you unloaded in a brown paper bag (ammo seperate).

What a waste of time...

 

[hermannr]

Thanks for posting. I was in the process of researching different state gun laws of the states I frequent. The link you posted is MOST helpful.

IMHO Handgunlaw.us is the best site for good solid information. Gary Slider goes to incredible lengths to make sure his information is as current, and accurate, as possible. Good links too.

 

[Squidly]

I have been pulled over once since getting my CHL. He didn't have to ask because he saw my weapon on my hip. He also saw my hands always non-threatening, and my friendly demeanor. I still got the ticket, but there was no discussion of my side arm.

 

[Nightcrawler]

You make several ASSUMPTIONS here. So what if the officer spots the knife, or smelled fuel or spots the weapon? Hernannr even states he ALWAYS open carries so that means ANY LEO interaction he has had the gun has been visible. WHY does it have to be a problem to see these things? Do I have to give a complete inventory of my vehicle every time I am stopped?

I know many of us do have regular interactions with LEO. I for one do VERY often on professional, recreational and family levels.

See, that's the point- it doesn't HAVE to be a problem. It's only a problem when someone has an issue with it. If any of you are from the Seattle area, you are aware of the ongoing gang problems in South King County. Hermannr is driving along, he's a normal guy, he gets stopped for something, say, speeding, he isn't likely to have the same issues as someone stopped in certain areas of south Seattle, Renton, Kent, Des Moines ... I'm trying to help you understand what goes through the minds of most LEOs in these situations. I have a lot of people let me know they have a permit and if they're carrying or not. If they aren't, I usually ask "why not?", because I'm surprised they'd be out without one when they are entitled to carry.
When I encounter someone who is, I ask what they prefer for cc, and I might ask where it is. Every once in awhile, someone will ask me about the Sig I carry, and we'll actually have a nice conversation. I'm far less concerned about someone who is legally carrying and who tells me, than someone who I spot with something tucked between the seat, and you have to run someone specifically for a permit to know they have one in WA State, it doesn't come back on the computer return automatically.

 

[optiontrigger]

That is funny right there. How to myths like this still exist in this age of information? Without registration there is NO way possible for this, and even then would have a LOT of errors.

This was corrected in a later post that this information exists for guns bought through an FFL. The 4473 form adds it to the list in Olympia. If you do a non-FFL transaction, that doesn't add to the list, and if you sell, it doesnt' remove that item from the list, so yes, there will be errors.

 

[Nwcid]

This was corrected in a later post that this information exists for guns bought through an FFL. The 4473 form adds it to the list in Olympia. If you do a non-FFL transaction, that doesn't add to the list, and if you sell, it doesnt' remove that item from the list, so yes, there will be errors.

Guess I missed that post but this still does not make sense. How does the information from the 4473 get to the State? Even on the call in to NICS there is NO mention of the brand, make, serial or anything else. All that is said is "long gun, handgun or other" then info on the buyer.

The NFA registry (true registration) has under 200,000 private held items and it is all messed up.

 

[hermannr]

Guess I missed that post but this still does not make sense. How does the information from the 4473 get to the State? Even on the call in to NICS there is NO mention of the brand, make, serial or anything else. All that is said is "long gun, handgun or other" then info on the buyer.

The NFA registry (true registration) has under 200,000 private held items and it is all messed up.

When you apply for a cpl the record goes into a database at DOL. When you purchase a pistol in WA there are two forms you fill out. The 4473, and a three part WA state form. If you have a CPL the dealer calls DOL and you get your pistol. If you don't have a CPL the dealer keeps one copy, and sends the other two to the local sheriff who has up to 5 days to say proceed. The sheriff can say ok or no at any time, but If after 5 days the sheriff has not gotten back to the dealer, you can have you pistol anyway. Either way, that third copy goes to DOL, where by law "They MAY" keep that record of sale (they do).

Is that record accurate? sure. As it is only a record of sale from a licensed dealer, it has nothing to do with who owns that pistol now. I purchase a pistol as a gift for my wife, it will show I purchased the pistol, but not that I gave it to her. It is not a "registration" as with the NFA "registration". It is a "record of sale".and means absolutely nothing about who actually owns that pistol now.

 

[Nwcid]

When you apply for a cpl the record goes into a database at DOL. When you purchase a pistol in WA there are two forms you fill out. The 4473, and a three part WA state form. If you have a CPL the dealer calls DOL and you get your pistol. If you don't have a CPL the dealer keeps one copy, and sends the other two to the local sheriff who has up to 5 days to say proceed. The sheriff can say ok or no at any time, but If after 5 days the sheriff has not gotten back to the dealer, you can have you pistol anyway. Either way, that third copy goes to DOL, where by law "They MAY" keep that record of sale (they do).

Is that record accurate? sure. As it is only a record of sale from a licensed dealer, it has nothing to do with who owns that pistol now. I purchase a pistol as a gift for my wife, it will show I purchased the pistol, but not that I gave it to her. It is not a "registration" as with the NFA "registration". It is a "record of sale".and means absolutely nothing about who actually owns that pistol now.

Yes that is true with HANDGUNS in WA but that is out of context with the original post of the original comment.

Was it Police, Sheriff or State Patrol? It wouldn't suprise me that if it was a Stater, he could pull up every gun gun serial you ever owned.

Which is 100% false.

Then the next posted stated,

This was corrected in a later post that this information exists for guns bought through an FFL. The 4473 form adds it to the list in Olympia. If you do a non-FFL transaction, that doesn't add to the list, and if you sell, it doesnt' remove that item from the list, so yes, there will be errors.

Which again is false. It comes from the WA form which is only for handguns.......

 

[optiontrigger]

Yes that is true with HANDGUNS in WA but that is out of context with the original post of the original comment.



Which is 100% false.

Then the next posted stated,



Which again is false. It comes from the WA form which is only for handguns.......

I should have been more specific - it only applies to handguns. No rifles or shotguns.

 

[optiontrigger]

By the way, I was stopped by a trooper recently and he was very polite and professional. During the stop he asked me if I wanted a printout of all handguns "registered" to me. I still have this hardcopy and it explains how the police know you have a CPL and any handguns you purchased through an FFL, minus any you sold through an FFL. It doesn't necessarily confirm what is currently owned by you.

 

[nwhpfan]

Hmm, this one comes up allot. Since 91% of LEO's support concealed carry (PoliceOne's 2013 Gun Policy & Law Enforcement Survey Results: Executive Summary - Law Enforcement News ) reasons for the questions could vary? Officer safety, to catch a wiff of alcohol on your breath, or maybe you got one of the 8.7% that don't support concealed carry and think you are a bad guy. How you answer, ???? well I wouldn't suggest a lie but I understand why someone would. Kinda like...does this dress make me look fat, or do you think "she" is pretty, etc. But if it were me, I'd keep it professional and friendly. Then the next day I would call the station and ask the officer to call me and I would have a conversation about the issue from the privacy and security of my home; non confrontational of course. If he disagreed with my ideas about concealed carry, or perhaps the reason was innocuous in nature, very little harm is done in talking about an issue.