got my property tax bill

[CoastRange57]

That's because of the COLA increase in PERS payouts. They gets theirs!

It is only an 8% minimum guaranteed return. Some years it was way more than that. There unions have seen to that.

Is your 401K or plan not giving or gave you that return guaranteed ??

 

[NWGlockgal]

I keep telling the wife we should sell out and become renters again!

Won't work. I own a couple of rentals and am raising the rent on them both because my property taxes went up almost $300 on each one. Renters don't often worry about property tax increases, but they should. The landlords pass the cost onto them.

 

[NWGlockgal]

I don't get this. My land/house value for taxes was $341,855 last year and $335,148 this year, a drop of
$6700. Yet my assessment went up from $161,763 to $166,613 this year up $4850. So they are saying my home/land is worth less this year, but my net taxable/assessed value is up. Taxes went up about $180.

 

[308]

My taxes went up $400+ and property value up 8%. So it looks like value and taxes went up about the same percentage wise.

 

[edslhead]

I haven't had a tax increase on my Airstream in years

 

[jluck]

And, they tax you if the property is sold and you make a profit.
It's a win/win for the government.

Not true for primary residence that you have lived in for over two years. Zero taxes paid on the last place I sold, 311K and not one dime of taxes owed. Obama has threatened to git rid of this reward to the working middle class. Imagine that.

 

[NWGlockgal]

These folks figured out a way to not pay taxes!

View attachment 260753

That's where I am going to end up living if they keep upping my property taxes every year!

 

[NWGlockgal]

And you didn't even get a kiss to go with it

Or a box of chocolates. At least that would have made it tolerable.

 

[forefathersrback]

PHARAOH........ LET MY PEOPLE GO!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

I don't get this. My land/house value for taxes was $341,855 last year and $335,148 this year, a drop of
$6700. Yet my assessment went up from $161,763 to $166,613 this year up $4850. So they are saying my home/land is worth less this year, but my net taxable/assessed value is up. Taxes went up about $180.

Maximum (Taxable) Assessed Value is allowed to increase each year by no more than 3 percent. There are exceptions to this limit, however. The addition of a new structure, major improvement of an existing structure, and subdivision or partition of the property are examples of exceptions that would increase MAV by more than 3 percent.

Each year the Maximum Assessed Value and Real Market Value for each property are figured. The property is then taxed on the lesser of these two values, which is called the "taxable assessed value".

Even though your Real Market Value went down, your Maximum (Taxable) Assessed Value still went up no more than 3%.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

It is only an 8% minimum guaranteed return. Some years it was way more than that. There unions have seen to that.

Is your 401K or plan not giving or gave you that return guaranteed ??

PERS did give public employees bonus earnings during one year of the DotCom bubble, but then took it out of our accounts and reduced pension checks ten years later.

The guaranteed 8% minimum return went away in the mid 1990's. Current employees at the time were called Tier I and still got the 8% minimum, new employees were Tier II and got a crummier deal. An even crummier Tier III then followede before the whole PERS system was scrapped and replaced with a retirement plan just as crummy as everyone else. Existing Tier I, II or III employees could no longer add to their PERS account. I left public service in 1999 so what little went into my vested retirement continues to make 8%.

 

[The Heretic]

Not true for primary residence that you have lived in for over two years. Zero taxes paid on the last place I sold, 311K and not one dime of taxes owed. Obama has threatened to git rid of this reward to the working middle class. Imagine that.

Agreed.

IIRC, I think the limit is somewhere around one million or more in value when you sell, and even then, if you turn around and put that money into your next primary residence (within a certain time limit) then you don't pay taxes on it - or something along those lines.

This is basically how people have been "upwardly mobile" over the decades, they buy a "starter" home and keep upgrading. Sometimes they can do that with minimal additional expenditure if they move from one area to another where the housing costs are lower. Or some rent out their previous house.

I've rented most of my life. There were several reasons I did that:

1) For a long time I couldn't afford a decent down payment.
2) I did not feel secure in my job.
3) I wanted to be able to move - especially if I could move back here from Seattle.

It took me 25 years, but I got back here and then I bought a house on acreage near the farm I grew up on. There is a lot to be said for owning rather than renting, if you can do it financially. Besides the finances, the main thing I appreciate is that I can do whatever I want on my property (as long as I don't dump toxic waste on it or something like that) and I don't have a landlord coming around wanting to do inspections or telling me to mow the lawn or telling me I can't work on my car in the driveway or stuff like that.

 

[The Heretic]

As you said, "The purpose of government is to protect our rights, to make sure we are all equal under the law". A sales tax has low earners (for whatever reason) paying 15% of their entire income (plus they may even have to borrow money in an emergency). While wealthier (through luck of birth or dint of hard work) pay the 15% only on what they choose to spend. Bob Cratchet would be paying a higher percentage of his total income and/or dollars in tax than Scrooge...even more if he had to borrow money for a new crutch for Tiny Tim.

You're defining equality as the same number of dollars paid.
I define it as the same Percentage of income paid.
No biggie just a different P.O.V.

If it is the same "percentage of income paid" then that would be a flat income tax, which I would support, but still prefer a flat sales tax.

Basically a flat tax, with no subsidies, no exemptions, no deductions, everybody paying, is more fair than what we have now. The truly wealthy who can afford tax lawyers and tax shelters and so on, are able to pay less tax because they can afford to find those loopholes in the tax code and hide their income there. The poor pay less of their income towards taxes because they are subsidized by the middle and upper middle class. Guess who gets to carry to load for both the poor and the wealthy?

I am not rich, I am not even upper middle class. My income is twice the median, but I put about a third of that into retirement funds so I pay a lower rate now, and I pay a lower tax rate later when I pull those funds out after retirement. But I am still subsidizing those with lower income and also actually those who can afford to hide their income (the very wealthy) from taxes. So I ask again - to anybody who thinks that is fair - how did I become responsible for those I am subsidizing?

The answer: I didn't. But the majority of people voted to take the taxes I pay and give a portion of those taxes to those who make less and those who make more, whether it is by lowering their tax rates, and/or by providing outright subsidies in the form of gov. social programs.

Life isn't "fair". Some people are less able than others to make a living. Some are not able at all. Some simply don't want to bother. But that doesn't make me responsible for their circumstances.

That doesn't mean I don't have empathy for their plight. I have BTDT. I *voluntarily* help when and where I can - that is charity. But I don't give to charity because I feel any kind of obligation to help them - I give because I want to help. An obligation infers responsibility for their situation, and I did nothing that makes me responsible for them.

I have my own responsibilities. I have a family I am responsible for. They are my first priority in all things. Every penny that goes to subsidizing others through taxes is one less penny I can spend on my family. I don't think that is fair.

If you want to give money to others who are struggling, then fine, by all means - I applaud your altruism. But do not force me to give that money via taxes - it is stealing from me and giving it to others - it takes food out of the mouths of my family and gives it to others. I don't think that is fair.

 

[The Heretic]

Pretty sure most of us and the other sheeple can find a tax or two on here that we are paying.

Gasoline and fuel taxes among others.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/a-list-of-97-taxes-americans-pay-every-year

You pay hidden taxes on almost everything, whether it is fuel or a loaf of bread.

The wheat that goes into the bread carries a tax the farmer pays on the income they make (if they make any), and all the middle men in between the farmer and when you buy the bread at the grocery store. All the fuel and other costs where taxes are involved. The trucks that transport the wheat, and milk and machinery, all pay road taxes, and FET taxes on their tires, and some pay sales tax, and the income taxes of everybody who works in the supply chain - that is all passed on to you.

The same is true of every product and service - all of these taxes are hidden in the cost of the product or service.

 

[The Heretic]

I don't mind property taxes as much as income taxes - and not just for the reasons I already mentioned, but because government and other people use those taxes to control us.

There are subsidies for all kinds of goods and services. Subsidies for home owners - we get to deduct the mortgage interest we pay and there are a number of other subsidies for home owners (first time buyer "credit", exemption on capital gains, property taxes are deducted, etc.).

Why? Because gov. and "social engineers" feel that homeowners are more stable than renters; owning a primary residences ties us down to one place, makes us less likely to switch locations and jobs, the gov. knows where to find us if they need to, and it makes us less inclined to rock the boat since we have more to lose.

There are subsidies for families; you get a tax deduction for every dependant you have. Some lower income families get an outright handout for every dependant - in the form of food stamps and/or welfare payments.

There are subsidies for religions - their income is not taxed if they go through the process of declaring themselves a charitable organization.

The government controls how much you can put into your retirement funds without having to pay taxes on those funds. Then they turn around and tax you with SSI - money you can pass on to your family if you die before you are eligible, or if you die before you have received all of the funds (with interest) that you put into SSI. The federal gov. turns around and borrows all of those funds to pay for gov. expenses.

There is no SSI "trust fund" except in the most abstract sense of the words; all there is there is a big IOU that the federal gov. where the gov. has promised to pay back those funds. If the gov. goes bankrupt, there won't be any SSI funds to pay for the promised benefits. We are getting closer and closer to that eventuality. I will probably have SSI benefits until I die because I am retiring in five years and won't live much past 80 - but my kids, they probably won't see a cent of the thousands of dollars they are forced to put into SSI.

I subsidized SSI for all those previously getting benefits, my kids are subsidizing the benefits of my generation and the generation before me.

Then there are all the crop subsidies, the subsidies for the petroleum industries, and so on and on and on. Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.

Then there are the sin taxes. Taxes on tobacco. Taxes on junk food and soda.

All of this to control us.

So yes, I support a flat sales tax - every product and service taxed at a flat rate. Everybody pays regardless of income. Churches, wealthy people, poor people, middle class, everybody.

No subsidies. No exemptions. No deductions. No dependants that can be claimed (why should I pay for your kids? you had them - you pay for them). No loopholes. A simple flat tax. Don't want to pay more tax? Buy less.

But most important of all - the one thing that makes all of the financial implications fall way down to the bottom of the list of benefits of a flat sales tax:

MUCH LESS GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF MY LIFE - YOUR LIFE - EVERYBODY'S LIFE - VIA TAXES.

 

[DuneHopper]

I think as many have mentioned land tax is rental or lease tax. Imagine its not land but a car. You decide on your car lease to not pay. Regardless if you have had your car decades the day you decide not to pay the lease they take and resell it, our land is the same way. Its estimated in a home owners life time they will spend over 300,000.00 in land tax on a average home. Often a person will spend more on tax then their house cost over time.
We think we are free, we are only leased.

 

[The Heretic]

I haven't had a tax increase on my Airstream in years

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...ay-off-student-loan_n_8346676.html?1445438291

I wonder where he parks it?

Oh wait:

http://frominsidethebox.com/

My current plan for my retirement is to convert my 4x4 one ton flatbed truck to an RV with a "garage" to haul my dirt bikes. But I am not sure I will still be physically able to ride my dirt bikes in five years, so I don't know that this will happen. But that's the plan.

Also in the plan is to sell my current place, buy acreage further out (no commute then) that has a gentle slope with southern exposure and some forest, probably have an ICF house built that is at least partially earth bermed - or at least a "shop" with living quarters. Then in the winter take the truck RV south, also maybe spend time in Tahiti and NZ and do some other travelling before I get so decrepit that I can't travel.

 

[cascadianliberty2012]

I think as many have mentioned land tax is rental or lease tax. Imagine its not land but a car. You decide on your car lease to not pay. Regardless if you have had your car decades the day you decide not to pay the lease they take and resell it, our land is the same way. Its estimated in a home owners life time they will spend over 300,000.00 in land tax on a average home. Often a person will spend more on tax then their house cost over time.
We think we are free, we are only leased.

Which brings us back to my post... we don't own anything. We are allowed to occupy land we claim to "own," that is, at the pleasure of our dear overlords.

What also gets me good with property taxes is the fact that it doesn't matter where you go or live, you "have" to pay them. There is no so-called legal difference between paying taxes on a lot in a city, or a same-sized lot in an isolated desert. The thing is that you have NO CHOICE, you will participate in THEIR system or have men with guns come arrest you, and if you resist, they'll kill you.

Nothing the government does is voluntary, it is all coercion. There is nowhere on Earth any of us could go where another human being doesn't claim some type of dominion over you. Because of this, the whole "why don't you go to Somalia" red herring fails. Go to Somalia and you're paying tribute to warlords.

 

[jbett98]

Here's a nice spot on earth that's as tax free as it gets.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...7_PcpRVdVSiZiuDiA&sig2=Iwqt3LT6hL-_gnndbtx3eA

 

[cascadianliberty2012]

Here's a nice spot on earth that's as tax free as it gets.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDcQFjAEahUKEwit7aHgit7IAhVWKYgKHa2WA8M&url=http://www.sovereignman.com/offshore/a-hidden-paradise-with-no-income-tax-or-property-tax-12086/&usg=AFQjCNGPYYP-ql2tC7_PcpRVdVSiZiuDiA&sig2=Iwqt3LT6hL-_gnndbtx3eA

Well that's half the battle right there, no taxes, however it is still subject to the not-so-great Aussie legal system.

Politically I advocate top-down localization of government and authority. Want to live within an urban area and pay taxes as a condition of your residing there? Ok, but those who choose an off-grid or secluded/private lifestyle shouldn't be compelled to feed the system they were trying to flee from.