got my property tax bill

[RicInOR]

What does this thread have in common?

People who own property.

 

[kenr74]

Taxes up 9% thanks to bonds. I get the privilege of paying for a new aquatic center that I will never use. Luckily my assessed value is only about half of what it would sell for.

Already paid over 40k in income taxes. Probably still not my "fair share".

 

[The Heretic]

The general idea of taxes, property or not, is that they are supposed to pay for services rendered by the government. Some of them go to this end, some do not.

At this point in time, paying $4K taxes on a $400K property is relatively minor financial issue when I take into account the appreciation of the property (currently) and the fact that rent for this place would equal my mortgage payment, but as should be obvious to property owners, you not only build equity by paying down the principle, in many markets you also build equity by appreciation (if you are careful, buy at the right price and buy something with intrinsic value).

In short, you pay taxes whether you rent or buy (a portion of your rent goes towards taxes), but when you buy a portion of your monthly payment goes towards equity.

I am sure you have all heard this before.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

What does this thread have in common?

People who own property.

I keep telling the wife we should sell out and become renters again!
Ours went up because they voted in a new Middle School here. Would have cost more to fix it up than replace we were told.
People around here buy into the BS and vote in every tax increase proposed. Renters and property owners alike.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

but as should be obvious to property owners, you not only build equity by paying down the principle, in many markets you also build equity by appreciation (if you are careful, buy at the right price and buy something with intrinsic value).

In short, you pay taxes whether you rent or buy (a portion of your rent goes towards taxes), but when you buy a portion of your monthly payment goes towards equity.

I am sure you have all heard this before.

In nine years here we are a little over break even I'm guessing. My last house we nearly doubled our money though.
It's always a bit of a gamble.

 

[The Heretic]

In nine years here we are a little over break even I'm guessing. My last house we nearly doubled our money though.
It's always a bit of a gamble.

A lot depends on timing.

For about 5 years before the housing bubble burst, people kept trying to get me to buy. I kept telling them that it was a bubble - and it was. But right towards the end I almost fell for it; I was actively shopping for a house. I thought maybe I was wrong.

I was lucky - I got laid off before I could buy a house. Right after I was laid off the housing bubble burst (or deflated). Two years later I helped my kids buy a house when everybody was trying to sell. Two years after that I bought this property when things were starting to come back. Now, all I have to do is wait another five years and then sell this property when I retire. If the market doesn't take a downturn between then and now, I should be okay. If it does then I still have this place and the funds to pay the mortgage.

So yes, it is kind of a gamble, but then most investments are.

There is a couple of basic rules that help though:

1) Buy low, sell high.

2) Nothing every keeps going up at an unsustainable rate forever - sooner or later it comes back down. Corrections happen. See rule#1

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Went up $200 because the economy is so good

The Oregon Constitution limits the rate of growth of property value subject to taxation. The limit is based on a property's maximum assessed value (MAV). The MAV was established for all property in existence in 1997-98 by a formula described in the constitutional amendment, Measure 50. MAV for new property is computed using a different formula also contained in the constitution..

MAV is allowed to increase each year by no more than 3 percent. There are exceptions to this limit, however. The addition of a new structure, major improvement of an existing structure, and subdivision or partition of the property are examples of exceptions that would increase MAV by more than 3 percent.

http://www.oregon.gov/dor/ptd/pages/property.aspx

 

[The Heretic]

Already paid over 40k in income taxes. Probably still not my "fair share".

For some people "fair" means those who are more successful pay more "because they can".

For others (like myself) fair means you pay for the costs you incur. As such - a flat sales tax (say, ten percent), no deductions, no exemptions, no subsidies, no minimum/maximum income, no maximum tax, no sin tax (everything is taxed and taxed the same) - everybody pays the same - seems to be the closest practical way to have a "fair" tax.

Sales tax is a more direct tax on the costs you incur and you are paying it already anyway; you pay income tax, and taxes are already included in the cost of anything you buy - they are just hidden.

 

[jbett98]

These folks figured out a way to not pay taxes!

 

[albin25]

There are a few big problems associated with basing all gov funding on a sales tax only. Such as;
- it is a tax that hits the lower income earners the most as they often need every penny they earn to provide a roof, clothing and food for their family so they pay say 15% of their whole income. The well-off pay the 15% on a smaller percentage of their income.
- it encourages black markets and un-regulated sellers of goods that may have been acquired for sale illegally.
- Huge variances in cost of living and income across the country

There's no guarantee that an income tax wouldn't be re-implemented.

In Canada each province has a sales tax(PST), then a federal sales tax (GST)was introduced to end the income tax...guess what?... combined sales taxes average 13-14% they still have an income tax. Then add that to property taxes that are through the roof (and not deductible)....I'm amazed anyone can afford to pay the massive taxes on booze!

 

[The Heretic]

There are a few big problems associated with basing all gov funding on a sales tax only. Such as;
- it is a tax that hits the lower income earners the most as they often need every penny they earn to provide a roof, clothing and food for their family so they pay say 15% of their whole income. The well-off pay the 15% on a smaller percentage of their income.

That may be true. However, tell me how the "well-off" became responsible for the "lower income earners"?

I was once a "low income earner" - the first 10 years of my adult life - while trying to support a wife and my young daughter - I made less, usually much less, than the "poverty line". I never felt, much less said, that anyone was responsible for my welfare - and no one was or is. Whether I suffer illness, bad circumstances, or just plain consequences of my own poor choices - I accepted that responsibility and never laid it on anybody else.

Yes, I asked for and accepted help from my family - but I never demanded it and I never tried to tell anybody that they owed me help. I have never said that anyone, especially strangers, should have their hard earned income taken from them and given to me, just because they earned more and I earned less.

I worked hard and I tried to make wiser decisions over the years. Eventually that paid off. I was fortunate - I had a decent family, and I was intelligent enough to that I eventually got paid well putting my brains to work for others.

That doesn't always work out for everybody, and it isn't always their fault when it doesn't. Sometimes they get sick. Sometimes bad things happen to them that aren't their fault. Sometimes they don't get the opportunities others do.

But that isn't my fault, and it isn't the fault of others who do well while some don't.

"Fair" means paying your fair share - which in turn means that you pay the same for groceries, for gas, for other goods and services as everybody else. It doesn't mean you pay more because you make more, and pay less because you make less.

This applies to taxes too.

Taxes pay for government services. Law enforcement. The justice system. The Military. Infrastructure such as highways.

The purpose of government is to protect our rights, to make sure we are all equal under the law - not to make sure that everyone is able to provide for their families - the latter is each person's responsibility, not the responsibility of all the other taxpayers.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Rents go up when taxes go up, you will pay no matter where you live on land. Try a boat.

I like the sound of that!!!!!! I'm a fishin fool!!!
Like the Ice Lake Rebels, yep I can do that.....

 

[albin25]

As you said, "The purpose of government is to protect our rights, to make sure we are all equal under the law". A sales tax has low earners (for whatever reason) paying 15% of their entire income (plus they may even have to borrow money in an emergency). While wealthier (through luck of birth or dint of hard work) pay the 15% only on what they choose to spend. Bob Cratchet would be paying a higher percentage of his total income and/or dollars in tax than Scrooge...even more if he had to borrow money for a new crutch for Tiny Tim.

You're defining equality as the same number of dollars paid.
I define it as the same Percentage of income paid.
No biggie just a different P.O.V.

 

[Stomper]

That may be true. However, tell me how the "well-off" became responsible for the "lower income earners"?

I was once a "low income earner" - the first 10 years of my adult life - while trying to support a wife and my young daughter - I made less, usually much less, than the "poverty line". I never felt, much less said, that anyone was responsible for my welfare - and no one was or is. Whether I suffer illness, bad circumstances, or just plain consequences of my own poor choices - I accepted that responsibility and never laid it on anybody else.

Yes, I asked for and accepted help from my family - but I never demanded it and I never tried to tell anybody that they owed me help. I have never said that anyone, especially strangers, should have their hard earned income taken from them and given to me, just because they earned more and I earned less.

I worked hard and I tried to make wiser decisions over the years. Eventually that paid off. I was fortunate - I had a decent family, and I was intelligent enough to that I eventually got paid well putting my brains to work for others.

That doesn't always work out for everybody, and it isn't always their fault when it doesn't. Sometimes they get sick. Sometimes bad things happen to them that aren't their fault. Sometimes they don't get the opportunities others do.

But that isn't my fault, and it isn't the fault of others who do well while some don't.

"Fair" means paying your fair share - which in turn means that you pay the same for groceries, for gas, for other goods and services as everybody else. It doesn't mean you pay more because you make more, and pay less because you make less.

This applies to taxes too.

Taxes pay for government services. Law enforcement. The justice system. The Military. Infrastructure such as highways.

The purpose of government is to protect our rights, to make sure we are all equal under the law - not to make sure that everyone is able to provide for their families - the latter is each person's responsibility, not the responsibility of all the other taxpayers.

Same story here... worked for peanuts,
gained skills, took classes, made connections, built a good reputation... 25 years of consistency, getting out of bed at 5am and working 8-16 hours a day, slogging through through the "ups and downs". Now I'm walking through "tall cotton", but it sucks to see 40%+ of my gross pay evaporate before I even get it... on top of property taxes, fuel taxes, excise taxes, inventory taxes, etc.

And the beggars on the off-ramps have the motherbubblegumming gall to be offended when I flip them the middle finger when they look at me?!

 

[cascadianliberty2012]

Property tax: the worst and most pervasive of all the taxes as it proves that if you don't continuously pay the government a tribute/rent/lease on the land you supposedly already own, they will send men with guns to take it from you.

If you must continually pay someone for something, do you really ever own it? Property taxes are modern day feudalism.

 

[Stomper]

Good point...

 

[jbett98]

And, they tax you if the property is sold and you make a profit.
It's a win/win for the government.

 

[cascadianliberty2012]

And, they tax you if the property is sold and you make a profit.
It's a win/win for the government.

Taxation is theft. Plain and simple.

 

[erudne]

Hey, Hey! You can't expect school kids to teach themselves that Allah is the supreme being all by themselves

 

[CoastRange57]

Pretty sure most of us and the other sheeple can find a tax or two on here that we are paying.

Gasoline and fuel taxes among others.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/a-list-of-97-taxes-americans-pay-every-year