Got any plans for the Pistol Brace apocalypse?

[fmvolume86]

The language is really troubling and concerning. "Amnesty" ....... Ummmmm NO

 

[wired]

So if a 6.5 Grendel firearm with a 12" barrel and standard carbine buffer tube is 26.25-26.5" OAL without muzzle device; it's just a firearm and not a SBR and can have brace? But if a firearm is between 12 and 26 inches OAL it might become a SBR due to points, but not an AOW, which actually has the official designation of "under 26 inches OAL=concealable"? I think someone was smoking something too good


Edit. It might be more clear if they went like this

Between 12 and 26, if too many points, AOW.

Over 26 OAL, barrel under 16", if too many points, SBR.

Under 26 OAL but barrel 16"; compact rifle/potentially AOW unless it's clearly designed to be a rifle (shoulder stock and 16" barrel, only the best bullpup designs could potentially get there)

Its a firearms and can have a brace. Not a pistol . The problem is if your state laws call it anything but a pistol by the same criteria you cannot treat it like its a pistol for legal purposes. Cant coceal it, no carry loaded in the vehicle etc. Not that anyone cares but its always a thing.

AOW's dont have buttstocks. Bullpups are designed to be fired from the shoulder.

 

[CamoDeafie]

AOW's dont have buttstocks. Bullpups are designed to be fired from the shoulder.

"Made from rifle or shotgun" is literally part of the definition of AOW for something that's concealable. So an AOW might have started with a buttstock (buttstock sawn off, short barreled shotgun for infamous example)


The potentially AOW part is if it doesn't have a stock remaining, but is still under 26" OAL even with a 16" barrel. For example, a long barreled Mare's Leg type of lever action carbine that started as a rifle, but has had its stock cut down to just a pistol grip

 

[CamoDeafie]

Its a firearms and can have a brace. Not a pistol . The problem is if your state laws call it anything but a pistol by the same criteria you cannot treat it like its a pistol for legal purposes. Cant coceal it, no carry loaded in the vehicle etc. Not that anyone cares but its always a thing.

Well. If we're gonna go by your assertions that "braces are stocks" then the "firearm with brace" would be a "SBR" according to your assertions

 

[User 1234]

"Made from rifle or shotgun" is literally part of the definition of AOW for something that's concealable. So an AOW might have started with a buttstock (buttstock sawn off, short barreled shotgun for infamous example)


The potentially AOW part is if it doesn't have a stock remaining, but is still under 26" OAL even with a 16" barrel. For example, a long barreled Mare's Leg type of lever action carbine that started as a rifle, but has had its stock cut down to just a pistol grip

This is incorrect. The language you paraphrased combines language from the SBR and SBS definitions. An AOW cannot be made from a firearm that ever had a buttstock.

 

[wired]

"Made from rifle or shotgun" is literally part of the definition of AOW for something that's concealable. So an AOW might have started with a buttstock (buttstock sawn off, short barreled shotgun for infamous example)


The potentially AOW part is if it doesn't have a stock remaining, but is still under 26" OAL even with a 16" barrel. For example, a long barreled Mare's Leg type of lever action carbine that started as a rifle, but has had its stock cut down to just a pistol grip

The federal govt doesn't issue or regulate concealed carry permits.

A sawed off rifle with no buttstock is a weapon made from a rifle not an AOW. When you hear once a rifle always a rifle thats kind of BS. You can take the stock off a rilfle and have a sub 16" barrel and NFA register it "weapon made from a rifle" on a form 1 and it will be in a rare NFA class but your state might call it a pistol and be eligible for pistol treatment including carry privileges . NOT WA state though . In my state that would be a pistol no matter if it started as a rifle but I'd still have to get a tax stamp for the feds

 

[CountryGent]

AOW's dont have buttstocks.

Well, there is one exception:



(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

 

[wired]

Well. If we're gonna go by your assertions that "braces are stocks" then the "firearm with brace" would be a "SBR" according to your assertions

No because pistols are under 26 inches . Come on man.

 

[wired]

Well, there is one exception:

View attachment 1274659

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Theres some oddball stuff but to get int the weeds of the NFA takes a long time . That would be an SBR now if you were to register it today.

 

[CamoDeafie]

No because pistols are under 26 inches . Come on man.

Yes. But again, you are the one who asserts that "braces are stocks, have always been stocks", so going from that specific assertion, a 12"-14.5" barreled firearm with a brace that is greater than 26" is a SBR because it has a "stock" and because the barrel is still under 16"

But if a firearm is under 26", never had a buttstock, may have had a brace, may be considered a pistol, possibly an AOW depending on configuration (2nd vertical grip for example).

For some reason I remember "made from shotgun or rifle" being part of the Any Other Weapons definition but I am apparently mistaken and these are for SBRs or SBS anyhow. I just remember one of the 12ga firearms (Serbu?) Being considered an AOW and not a SBS.....

 

[bradsteen]

This whole argument sounds like a monty python sketch.

"When did you get an SBR?"
"It's not an SBR, it's a pistol!"
"But it has a stock!"
"It's a brace, not a stock."
"it's not a question of what you call it, it's a matter of how it's used! A firearm designed or intended to be shouldered with a rifled barrel under 16" and an OAL of under 26" is considered an SBR!"
"But the ATF has been saying differently for the last 15 years!"
...

 

[wired]

Yes. But again, you are the one who asserts that "braces are stocks, have always been stocks", so going from that specific assertion, a 12"-14.5" barreled firearm with a brace that is greater than 26" is a SBR because it has a "stock" and because the barrel is still under 16"

But if a firearm is under 26", never had a buttstock, may have had a brace, may be considered a pistol, possibly an AOW depending on configuration (2nd vertical grip for example).

For some reason I remember "made from shotgun or rifle" being part of the Any Other Weapons definition but I am apparently mistaken and these are for SBRs or SBS anyhow. I just remember one of the 12ga firearms (Serbu?) Being considered an AOW and not a SBS.....

The Serbu started from a bare receiver and had never been a shotgun. Shotguns have stocks. Since the Serbu never was a shotgun it can be an AOW
As far as non pistol applications those are different depending on classification and rules. Keep up

 

[titsonritz]

 

[CountryGent]

As it has been referenced on and off in this thread, the history of the machine-gun amnesty may be of interest:

 

[CamoDeafie]

OK. True or false.

1. A firearm with a shoulder stock, and a rifled barrel under 16" is a SBR

2. A firearm with a rifled barrel under 16", and under 26" may be either a pistol, an AOW, or a SBR

3. A stabilizing brace has been considered not a stock until very recently

4. A firearm with a brace, under the new worksheet, under 16" barrel, and under 26" OAL may be a SBR

5. A firearm that does not have a brace, nor a stock, is under 26" OAL, is a pistol or AOW;

6. A firearm with a brace, under 26" OAL, if it has a 2nd vertical foregrip, used to be considered an AOW because of the foregrip


7. If a stabilizing brace is now considered a stock; and the ATF was "mistaken" back in 2012 and since then..

8. So a braced firearm greater than 26" is "not a SBR"?

 

[wired]

As it has been referenced on and off in this thread, the history of the machine-gun amnesty may be of interest:

Sounds familiar huh

 

[mhayd93]

Doesn't this back-and-forth discussion regarding points and what does or does not constitute an SBS, SBR, or AOW just paint a sad picture of how much ground we have lost? Even sadder that it's all packed away behind the NFA, which has been proven to be quite invincible!

 

[CamoDeafie]

Doesn't this back-and-forth discussion regarding points and what does or does not constitute an SBS, SBR, or AOW just paint a sad picture of how much ground we have lost? Even sadder that it's all packed away behind the NFA, which has been proven to be quite invincible!

Yes, because repealing the NFA has never been a platform for either of the National Parties because it makes beaucoup money and is easy to say it's been ruled "constitutional"

 

[ma96782]

Think of it as....
Just like in the movies........
It'll be as simple as pie (once the paper trail is established).



Aloha, Mark

 

[wired]

Yes, because repealing the NFA has never been a platform for either of the National Parties because it makes beaucoup money and is easy to say it's been ruled "constitutional"

The NFA is the gun control they want. I'm surprised it hasn't been expanded. Like by a lot