Glock "Safe Action" triggers

[bbbass]

Feel free to start a new thread, I dont mind debating it...
Its just my opinion but those trigger safeties are almost worthless...

I'm sure that's been discussed to death even tho I can't find the thread due to the crappy search engine here.

Trigger was pretty good and with no safety I said just that. I figured these were going to be a problem and boy were they ever. Very soon Cops who had always had a wheel gun were handed one of these with far too little training. Lots of red faces when one would touch off a round at the wrong time. Glocks answer, making the trigger much harder seemed wrong to me.

Way too much urban legend around ADs committed by cops with a Glock. Yes, training was indeed the problem. Good call on that. You hand a guy a pistol that looks like a block of metal, that has a 5-6lb trigger, when the cop is used to a 12lb long pull trigger, and what did they think was going to happen unless there were lots of round expended at the range to retrain these guys away from "staging" the long pull trigger that Glock doesn't have. The New York trigger seemed to work for them tho. So, what did the Army do when they changed from 1911 to Beretta?

Additionally, the internal safeties, three of them (trigger shoe safety, firing pin safety, drop safety), on a Glock physically prevent the firearm from going off unless the trigger is pulled. What part of that is so hard to understand? The little leaf on the visible trigger shoe is not the only safety on the weapon. Think it all looks unsubstantial? Have you ever disassembled a 1911 and seen the tiny amount of contact between the safety and the sear?

A striker fired pistol is not completely cocked until the trigger is pulled. I don't think the striker is capable of setting off a round unless the pistol has been modified, even then the drop safety and the trigger safety are going to keep it from going off. Take any Glock apart and compare the safety mech to a 1911 mech, you'll see.

IIRC the ADs were before the LEO agencies were smart enough to require their cops to use a full holster that covers the entire trigger area so shirts, sticks, etc, cannot pull the trigger.

IMO, no Glock has ever had an AD without a trigger pull. One of my local gun dealers tried to tell me a deputy in his shop had one, but I believe what happened is the guy forgot to clear the weapon before pulling the trigger to take the slide off. That happens.

Are these design defects or as I believe just training and dumbass defects? They would not be the most popular firearm in IDPA if they were dangerous.

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[Medic!]

Oh, I know how a knife cuts.

You put what you want cut on the sharp part.

 

[Alexx1401]

I'm sure that's been discussed to death even tho I can't find the thread due to the crappy search engine here.



Way too much urban legend around ADs committed by cops with a Glock. Yes, training was indeed the problem. Good call on that. You hand a guy a pistol that looks like a block of metal, that has a 5-6lb trigger, when the cop is used to a 12lb long pull trigger, and what did they think was going to happen unless there were lots of round expended at the range to retrain these guys away from "staging" the long pull trigger that Glock doesn't have. The New York trigger seemed to work for them tho. So, what did the Army do when they changed from 1911 to Beretta?

Additionally, the internal safeties, three of them (trigger shoe safety, firing pin safety, drop safety), on a Glock physically prevent the firearm from going off unless the trigger is pulled. What part of that is so hard to understand? The little leaf on the visible trigger shoe is not the only safety on the weapon. Think it all looks unsubstantial? Have you ever disassembled a 1911 and seen the tiny amount of contact between the safety and the sear?

A striker fired pistol is not completely cocked until the trigger is pulled. I don't think the striker is capable of setting off a round unless the pistol has been modified, even then the drop safety and the trigger safety are going to keep it from going off. Take any Glock apart and compare the safety mech to a 1911 mech, you'll see.

IIRC the ADs were before the LEO agencies were smart enough to require their cops to use a full holster that covers the entire trigger area so shirts, sticks, etc, cannot pull the trigger.

IMO, no Glock has ever had an AD without a trigger pull. One of my local gun dealers tried to tell me a deputy in his shop had one, but I believe what happened is the guy forgot to clear the weapon before pulling the trigger to take the slide off. That happens.

Are these design defects or as I believe just training and dumbass defects? They would not be the most popular firearm in IDPA if they were dangerous.

This always seems to get some upset which is not my intention. I don't like Glock but have always said they certainly earned the huge chunk of market they own. ALL of the AD's. Are the fault of the one holding the gun not design flaw. It's just a design I saw problems with day one. The ones I have seen were seen not rumored. Most were LEO trying to hold someone at gun point. Have heard of a few from trigger getting caught on something like safety strap. Never saw it but could see it happening on the original I first shot. Never heard of one going off by anything other than trigger pull. Would probably not believe anyone who claimed one fired this way like dropping it. As I have often said just because it's not my thing doesn't make it defective to me. Just not what I think is a good design for what they are for. Have often come close to buying one of the sub compacts and. Adding an external safety but cost of doing so always made me chose another design

 

[MasterChief]

I bought my first G$ this year....I always hated them....one b/c of the fan-boys (which i dislike for ANY tool/weapon) but two b/c of the "non" safety. I have always been a 1911 style carrier. I liked that if there was one in the tube; then my hammer back and safety on, I was GTG.

Then I started watching videos how quick some of these self defense scenarios were happening..... then, I started to rethink how fast I actually am with a medium to full size pistol concealed. I had a few giftcards to a certain place and really started looking at Glocks b/c the concealability and carry capacity..... What sold me was when I found an IWB holster that fit like a love handle on a fat guy... (If your wondering I'm not fat but I fig why not ) I know LEO wouldn't want to carry the way I do, but that's why civvies have choices....we're not issued. As always, I never bash anyone for what they like to shoot...but hell, have a plan, and be able to back it up.....and always listen. If you think you're the smartest/fastest/quickest/etc....think again....always be open to try new things and learn...you might be surprised.

 

[bbbass]

Have often come close to buying one of the sub compacts and. Adding an external safety but cost of doing so always made me chose another design

After I gave my Glock 19 to my step-daughter, I bought a Ruger SR9c for EDC. It is a striker fired action that they got the rights from Glock for, so it is an exact copy of the trigger mech except for you can buy one off the shelf that has an external safety. Mine has that but I never use it. It has both a 10rd mag with a finger shoe, and comes with a 17rd mag also. It is made extra slim for carry use. 3.4" barrel. Very accurate. Nice trigger but has a surprise break compared to the standard Glock trigger that can be staged.

 

[bbbass]

I bought my first G$ this year....I always hated them....one b/c of the fan-boys (which i dislike for ANY tool/weapon) but two b/c of the "non" safety. I have always been a 1911 style carrier. I liked that if there was one in the tube; then my hammer back and safety on, I was GTG.

Then I started watching videos how quick some of these self defense scenarios were happening..... then, I started to rethink how fast I actually am with a medium to full size pistol concealed. I had a few giftcards to a certain place and really started looking at Glocks b/c the concealability and carry capacity..... What sold me was when I found an IWB holster that fit like a love handle on a fat guy... (If your wondering I'm not fat but I fig why not ) I know LEO wouldn't want to carry the way I do, but that's why civvies have choices....we're not issued. As always, I never bash anyone for what they like to shoot...but hell, have a plan, and be able to back it up.....and always listen. If you think you're the smartest/fastest/quickest/etc....think again....always be open to try new things and learn...you might be surprised.

I shoot both 1911 and striker fired. As I have gotten older I seem to have lost some brain power. With 1911 I'm always afraid I am either going to forget to put the safety on, or forget to take it off. Neither of which is very good. Choose one: an AD that hits my leg or butt, or a failure-to-fire in some future gunfight. Yikes!!!

I don't like heavy revolver triggers, and DA/SA triggers that I have tried, I used to own a .40cal Witness, just weren't my bag. It took me awhile to get used to the Glock trigger, but I've done pretty well with it in IDPA matches.

 

[bbbass]

Btw, I've honed both my Ruger SR trigger and my Glock 34 trigger. Both are smooth as butter now.

 

[bbbass]

This always seems to get some upset which is not my intention.

Sorry, I wasn't upset by your comment. It was another one that got me going.

What I do have a problem with is all the urban legend and ignorance surrounding the safe or not-safe issue... people repeating incorrect stories about ADs, etc, when they have never looked honestly at the design features of the action.

For the record I really don't have any issues with folks that just don't like striker fired pistols, or the bulky, blocky looks/feel of the Glock. To each his own.

It's all good. I had an offer to debate and saw a need to put all the info I could think of into one post rather than go back and forth on it. Efficiency, eh?

 

[cigars]

I bought my first G$ this year....I always hated them....one b/c of the fan-boys (which i dislike for ANY tool/weapon) but two b/c of the "non" safety. I have always been a 1911 style carrier. I liked that if there was one in the tube; then my hammer back and safety on, I was GTG.

Then I started watching videos how quick some of these self defense scenarios were happening..... then, I started to rethink how fast I actually am with a medium to full size pistol concealed. I had a few giftcards to a certain place and really started looking at Glocks b/c the concealability and carry capacity..... What sold me was when I found an IWB holster that fit like a love handle on a fat guy... (If your wondering I'm not fat but I fig why not ) I know LEO wouldn't want to carry the way I do, but that's why civvies have choices....we're not issued. As always, I never bash anyone for what they like to shoot...but hell, have a plan, and be able to back it up.....and always listen. If you think you're the smartest/fastest/quickest/etc....think again....always be open to try new things and learn...you might be surprised.

I was the same way. I carried a 1911 all the time. Then I found my Kahr CW45. No external safeties, just the striker safety. Been carrying it for about four years now. It's all good.

 

[MrRob96]

This debate is exactly why I carry a DA/SA pistol.

To me there's not enough margin for error in the 6lb trigger with no safety besides your finger. You may be correct that there has never been an ND without pulling the trigger, but as Alex said, people get jumpy in the real world. We now see it on the news every single time a cop gets jumpy.

Calling it "safe action" doesn't mean it's really the safest configuration.

Glock is so large because they were great at marketing. They are the Apple computer of handguns.

Glock is so good at marketing, they have YOU coming in here and singing the praises of their configuration.

Ask yourself why it's rarely M&P owners telling everyone how ultra safe their striker gun is...

 

[MasterChief]

Ask yourself why it's rarely M&P owners telling everyone how ultra safe their striker gun is...

I dont disagree with you 100% but I would say regarding the above statement, this is mainly due to the longevity of Glocks models.

 

[bbbass]

Glock is so good at marketing, they have YOU coming in here and singing the praises of their configuration.

Actually, I was here. I didn't "come in here". And I was challenged to a debate.

This debate is exactly why I carry a DA/SA pistol.

To me there's not enough margin for error in the 6lb trigger with no safety besides your finger. You may be correct that there has never been an ND without pulling the trigger, but as Alex said, people get jumpy in the real world. We now see it on the news every single time a cop gets jumpy.

DA/SA has a short action light trigger pull on the second round. How is that safer for jumpy people?

And the cops pulling the trigger are intentional. Rarely does one see a ND when a LEO is holding a suspect at gunpoint. It happened what, once?

I don't like that you are assuming I am influenced by marketing. I don't care what other people, LEOs, military, are carrying. Many carry Hi-Power, Beretta, etc. And I never will, because I've tried it and don't like it!!!! Yeah, there are some sheeple and people that don't research/experiment, BUT DON'T INCLUDE ME WITH THEM. That's just insulting and unnecessary. If YOU don't like Glock, FINE. But please leave the personal attacks out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MrMillspecer]

I've been know to poke a bear every so often.

I won't knock anyone for their choice of firearms. I poke the Glock bear because you cannot talk about any pistol without some saying you NEED a Glock.

My first handgun was a da revolver. A 357 Dan Wesson. I learned to cock a hammer when time allowed and also learned to shoot it da style. I also leave my pistols on my nightstand at night UNHOLSTERED. It's just grab and pull the trigger or grab , safety off, pull trigger 1911 style. My one Stryker pistol has a grip safety. What makes sense to me is having a handgun I can't discharge by accidently raking the trigger.

I get the whole Glock simplicity thing. Remove from holster , aim and pull trigger. But my pistols lay naked like a thing of beauty. I'm the odd ball perhaps.

And if it was me I did not intend to insult you or any Stryker pistol owner. We are all safest with what we train with. And no one can tell us otherwise.

 

[bbbass]

I poke the Glock bear because you cannot talk about any pistol without some saying you NEED a Glock.

Hmmm, I just ignore silly people that make comments like they did. I hate trendy, and the latest "gotta have it" things don't affect me in the least. No MAC, no iPhone, no iPad, etc etc.

Nope, it wasn't you. I was challenged to a debate by a member that then failed to show up. It's all good.

 

[MrRob96]

I dont disagree with you 100% but I would say regarding the above statement, this is mainly due to the longevity of Glocks models.

I'm not sure I'm buying that one. Glock is a marketing machine, and it has paid off.

 

[MasterChief]

I'm not sure I'm buying that one. Glock is a marketing machine, and it has paid off.

Whateva's Cleva

 

[MrRob96]

Actually, I was here. I didn't "come in here". And I was challenged to a debate.



DA/SA has a short action light trigger pull on the second round. How is that safer for jumpy people?

And the cops pulling the trigger are intentional. Rarely does one see a ND when a LEO is holding a suspect at gunpoint. It happened what, once?

I don't like that you are assuming I am influenced by marketing. I don't care what other people, LEOs, military, are carrying. Many carry Hi-Power, Beretta, etc. And I never will, because I've tried it and don't like it!!!! Yeah, there are some sheeple and people that don't research/experiment, BUT DON'T INCLUDE ME WITH THEM. That's just insulting and unnecessary. If YOU don't like Glock, FINE. But please leave the personal attacks out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wasn't going for a personal attack except to say I think you are glossing over the safety of the Glock action and now you're endorsing it as a sufficiently safe mode of carry.

I would disagree with you and say you should express that you've accepted less safety for easier use. I can understand that.

I think there have been a lot more cases than one of a LEO NDing their firearm while holding it on a suspect. I am too lazy to look up stats, and most web searches return crazy emotional rants over how training is the answer.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Oh, I know how a knife cuts.

You put what you want cut on the sharp part.

A "safe" knife is a potato.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

been carrying a glock 23 IWB with one in the chamber for 4 years... no problems

 

[Certaindeaf]

In the old days they made "pocket guns" that were pretty much safe to carry in a .. wait for it.. pocket. magic times
edit add, whatever you do, don't carry a Glock in your pocket without a good holster. ie it's not a pocket gun at all