Glock "Safe Action" triggers

[Medic!]

And by the tone you're taking I can tell you've never had to pull a gun on someone in a high stress situation.

No.
Andy has only done five combat tours.

 

[FullMetalJerk]

Girlfriends, wives, daughters, sons,.. anyone. You trust the gun handling skills of someone that's drunk or tired? I don't.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Well four actually... but whose counting? ( Besides Medic! ? )
Andy

No.
Andy has only done five combat tours.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

And as a reminder to all here:
This is a friendly forum and discussion.
No need for snarky comments or comebacks that do nothing but promote ill will to each other.

Note to all: I am not calling anyone out here ... Just a reminder...
Andy

 

[titsonritz]

Girlfriends, wives, daughters, sons,.. anyone. You trust the gun handling skills of someone that's drunk or tired? I don't.

But I should trust a drunk with SA/DA? Not sure what tangent you're on, I mean from "safe-action trigger" to "Girlfriends, wives, daughters, sons" to "drunks".

 

[Medic!]

And as a reminder to all here:
This is a friendly forum and discussion.
No need for snarky comments or comebacks that do nothing but promote ill will to each other.

Note to all: I am not calling anyone out here ... Just a reminder...
Andy

Dammit!

I knew ''The Man'' would keep me down...........

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Don't you make me stop this forum and go back there!!!
Andy

Dammit!

I knew ''The Man'' would keep me down...........



View attachment 380805

 

[MrMillspecer]

Nope. Not misreading. I didn't say I was unsafe. Very few people can claim to be accident proof. You're only fooling yourself if you think you're foolproof. Stuff happens when adrenaline is pumping. Take heed or be stupid, your choice. But to claim Glocks are perfect or safe is far from the truth. The only safe semi auto for appendix carry is a DA/SA.

I like the 1911 style safety but a good da/sa is to me the best of both worlds. I would think in a high stress situation that 10lb trigger will feel like 2. A pistol with a safe trigger that turns to a precision trigger just by pulling it. Or just hammer back IF you have the time. I practice that as well. Just me, self taught.

My edc is a p938 with a 1911 style safety. And much of my practice is flipping the safety on draw just like the 1911s. It's extra work but worth it for the ability to pocket the pistol or carry with the barrel in the ballroom if needed. One thing I check is to make sure the safety is always on while carrying. Once I found it off and it wasn't a good feeling. Not sure how it happened , I possible holstered it with it off by accident. Luckily I always treat the trigger as the main safety.

I also get the Glock style trigger. The holster or trigger guard IS part of the safety. And keeping it simple so new shooters have less to retain. Or seasoned shooters may prefer it to everything they have tried as well.

 

[Koda]

I thought this thread was about the mechanics of the Glock Safe Action trigger safety?
Not about safe gun handling. It doesnt matter what gun you have in your hand, safety is between your ears.
The big problem with the Glock is the misconception it wont go off if your finger is not on the trigger, it can and will if something gets in there. A 1911 wont.

 

[etrain16]

In a high stress situation, even the most trained gun fighter can fumble. If you wanna appendix carry a Glock and think there's no chance of having an oops, have at it. But don't say I didn't warn ya. Appendix carry is serious business.

Having gone through several concealed carry/self-defense pistol courses with a well-respected training school here in Oregon, I have to ask, under what circumstances would anyone be rushing to re-holster their gun in a high-stress situation? As a part of our training, we went over drawing and re-holstering, over and over and over again. And over and over again they stressed this point - there is never a time when you need to rush re-holstering your gun. At that point, the fight is over. Take it slowly, pay attention. We were taught to watch that our shirts didn't get caught in the trigger guard, for example.

If people are rushing to re-holster, then that's going to be a problem no matter what gun we're talking about. Re-holstering can be done slowly and deliberately, so those accidents can be avoided in the first place.

 

[FullMetalJerk]

Having gone through several concealed carry/self-defense pistol courses with a well-respected training school here in Oregon, I have to ask, under what circumstances would anyone be rushing to re-holster their gun in a high-stress situation? As a part of our training, we went over drawing and re-holstering, over and over and over again. And over and over again they stressed this point - there is never a time when you need to rush re-holstering your gun. At that point, the fight is over. Take it slowly, pay attention. We were taught to watch that our shirts didn't get caught in the trigger guard, for example.

If people are rushing to re-holster, then that's going to be a problem no matter what gun we're talking about. Re-holstering can be done slowly and deliberately, so those accidents can be avoided in the first place.

Easier said than done. Many scenarios where reholstering might be required. I've been through those classes and I have my own opinions on how they instruct.

 

[etrain16]

I thought this thread was about the mechanics of the Glock Safe Action trigger safety?
Not about safe gun handling. It doesnt matter what gun you have in your hand, safety is between your ears.
The big problem with the Glock is the misconception it wont go off if your finger is not on the trigger, it can and will if something gets in there. A 1911 wont.

Not quite true. If you get something caught in the trigger guard of a 1911 that is cocked/chambered, but the safety is actually off, it could go off, just like the others. Picture someone holstering a cocked and not-locked 1911 (because they forgot to set the safety lever) and are pressing the gun into the holster, thus disengaging the beavertail grip safety, that gun could go off just like the others.

Like others have stated here already, when it comes to trigger safety, keeping ANYTHING out of the trigger guard that can pull on that trigger - your finger, a shirt/jacket, a part of a leather holster, etc., can cause an ND. Safeties are a nice idea, but ANY safety can fail if the operator of that gun fails to use them properly. Personally, I think mechanical safeties give a dangerous false sense of security that can lead to an ND. I've carried guns with and without them, and I find I prefer a carry gun without a mechanical lever safety for the main reason that if I have to draw in a high-stress situation, it's one less thing to have to think about. Of course you can train with the safety, but I like the idea of draw and fire over draw, safety off, then fire. It's also the reason I carry chambered - I don't want to have to rack the slide and risk a short stroke and failure to chamber a round.

Whatever anyone carries, train with it. Know your gun. Repeat your drills. And when it's time to re-holster, slow down, be deliberate and be certain of what is or isn't inside that trigger guard. The best safety is between your ears.

 

[etrain16]

Easier said than done. Many scenarios where reholstering might be required. I've been through those classes and I have my own opinions on how they instruct.

What kind of scenarios might require a rapid re-holstering of your pistol? You said there are many, I'd be curious to hear a few, because there aren't any coming to my mind at the moment.

 

[Koda]

Not quite true. If you get something caught in the trigger guard of a 1911 that is cocked/chambered, but the safety is actually off, it could go off, just like the others. Picture someone holstering a cocked and not-locked 1911 (because they forgot to set the safety lever) and are pressing the gun into the holster, thus disengaging the beavertail g

Not quite true either. If they forgot to engage the safety thats a training error.

 

[Medic!]

Not quite true either. If they forgot to engage the safety thats a training error.

So the trigger on a Glock can be accidentally pressed.
But the safety on a 1911 can't be accidentally disengaged?

 

[etrain16]

Not quite true either. If they forgot to engage the safety thats a training error.

Also partially true - anyone's training can fail if they're not paying attention. Anyone that carries with a safety should obviously train with that safety. Unfortunately training is no guarantee of anything - if you aren't paying full attention to what you're doing, you may forget a step - it can, and does, happen. That's why I don't rely on any safety to guarantee something bad can't happen. Safeties can fail, but more often than not, the person using or failing to use them properly, is the point of failure. Best to keep your mind on what you're doing anytime you're handling a gun, regardless of safeties or level of training. When people get in a rush, or get distracted, that's when things go bad.

 

[Koda]

So the trigger on a Glock can be accidentally pressed.
But the safety on a 1911 can't be accidentally disengaged?

I suppose thats possible when reholstering, what are the odds after the person has engaged the safety?

 

[etrain16]

I suppose thats possible when reholstering, what are the odds after the person has engaged the safety?

Probably the same odds if someone is making sure nothing is in the trigger guard of any gun. Revolvers don't have safeties, and yes, they have a very heavy trigger pull, but under the right conditions, even that could be overcome and an ND could happen. Again, relying solely on mechanical safeties is more likely to cause an eventual failure than being vigilant in how you handle whatever weapon you carry. I've been carrying striker-fired guns for years now, in classes where we constantly draw/re-holster and just in my day to day life. I holster my gun at least once a day, every day, and have never had an ND - because I pay attention to what I'm doing. If I were carrying a 1911, I would be just as vigilant, I wouldn't let my guard down assuming that mechanical safety will do my work for me.

 

[Alexx1401]

What kind of scenarios might require a rapid re-holstering of your pistol? You said there are many, I'd be curious to hear a few, because there aren't any coming to my mind at the moment.

I've seen and heard of a few ND's from LEO's doing this. When they have someone down and are trying to cuff them. The ones I could watch happen looked to me like it was just another case of someone who should not have been a Cop yet. They were just not able to handle the stress of the situation due to lack of training and or they were just not ready for the job. Again this is not the fault of the gun. Some guns made this easier to happen but it was still squarely the fault of the one with the red face. A LOT of the problem here starts with the "it has to be someone Else's fault" crowd too. There was one here a while back at one of the local PD's. Woman had guy in the back, cuffed, acting stupid. she "thought" she was drawing her Taser to zap him and shot him with her duty gun, which was a Glock. She sued Taser. This one pissed me off BIG TIME. Don't know what ever happened to her and the law suit. Her dog and pony excuse made zero sense to me. She has an M series Taser. They are very large. They also have a safety that works opposite the standard way, they are moved up not down. She said it was Tasers fault she pulled her gun and could not tell it was not her Taser. So why is she trying to Taser a guy in cuffs in the back seat in such a hurry she can't tell she has her service weapon. To me it just said she should not have been a Cop. Of course though she had to find someone else to blame.

 

[Alexx1401]

Probably the same odds if someone is making sure nothing is in the trigger guard of any gun. Revolvers don't have safeties, and yes, they have a very heavy trigger pull, but under the right conditions, even that could be overcome and an ND could happen. Again, relying solely on mechanical safeties is more likely to cause an eventual failure than being vigilant in how you handle whatever weapon you carry. I've been carrying striker-fired guns for years now, in classes where we constantly draw/re-holster and just in my day to day life. I holster my gun at least once a day, every day, and have never had an ND - because I pay attention to what I'm doing. If I were carrying a 1911, I would be just as vigilant, I wouldn't let my guard down assuming that mechanical safety will do my work for me.

When I pick up a gun I often think of that old line from the Russian. Is not safe, is gun.