Glock "Safe Action" triggers

[MrMillspecer]

If a person has an AD on a DA/SA pistol with a 10lb trigger and a long pull when holstering. They may want to find a different hobby. I don't think even knitting would be safe.

 

[Koda]

Probably the same odds if someone is making sure nothing is in the trigger guard of any gun.

I guess I "mostly" disagree with that. When holstering, maybe something gets caught down in the holster thats possible.

If the gun is dropped, carried off body (Ill never reccommend that but people do...) in a backpack or fanny pack without an inner holster... Id much rather have a 1911.

Years ago I went backpacking with a friend, when it was time to turn in for the night he set his glock down by bis sleeping bag. I asked him to unload it and he didnt want to, got upset. Seemed like as if I was challenging his personal gun handling, I wasnt he wanted to set his Glock down like a nightstand gun, sans holster. Not around me, never trusted that trigger safety since.

 

[bbbass]

Could not resist posting this:

Federal agent shoots himself in foot at Orlando International Airport

Any bets on what kind of handgun it was?

Beretta.

 

[etrain16]

I guess I "mostly" disagree with that. When holstering, maybe something gets caught down in the holster thats possible.

If the gun is dropped, carried off body (Ill never reccommend that but people do...) in a backpack or fanny pack without an inner holster... Id much rather have a 1911.

Years ago I went backpacking with a friend, when it was time to turn in for the night he set his glock down by bis sleeping bag. I asked him to unload it and he didnt want to, got upset. Seemed like as if I was challenging his personal gun handling, I wasnt he wanted to set his Glock down like a nightstand gun, sans holster. Not around me, never trusted that trigger safety since.

From that point of view, I can understand. When it comes to carrying guns anywhere, I keep them in a holster or some other type of device that has trigger protection. Heck, I wouldn't carry a gun like a 1911 without a holster with some kind of trigger protection. Carrying a gun loose in a bag or backpack - that's foolish regardless of what safeties a gun does or doesn't have - you're just begging for trouble then. At home, my carry gun is stored in the holster. My bedside gun is locked in a safe, securely stashed in a foam liner that completely covers the trigger.

Would you have been okay if your buddy had used a holster and set the gun, loaded, next to him? Or would you have still been concerned about it? For me, so long as that trigger is covered and the barrel isn't pointed at me, I'd probably be okay - but I'd expect the same if he had a 1911 as well - no open gun just laying out.

Again, I don't care what kind of safety a gun has - a 1911, in my opinion, is no more safe than a Glock just because of the safeties. Mechanical safeties can fail. Unless a person can handle a gun safely, they probably shouldn't handle them at all.

 

[Koda]

Would you have been okay if your buddy had used a holster and set the gun, loaded, next to him? Or would you have still been concerned about it? For me, so long as that trigger is covered and the barrel isn't pointed at me, I'd probably be okay - but I'd expect the same if he had a 1911 as well - no open gun just laying out.

Id have been ok if he had it in a proper holster that covered the trigger guard.

 

[etrain16]

Id have been ok if he had it in a proper holster that covered the trigger guard.

That's a more than reasonable request. So, he didn't even have a holster with him?

 

[bbbass]

how does it compare in size to all the interfaces of the Glock Safe Action mechanisms? The 1911 has been a very reliable gun for well over 100 years. The size of the interfaces is not relative to their function.... Also the 1911 has a half cock, for this reason. I agree a Glock is safer from muzzle impact than a "series 70" style 1911.

Ok, have you ever changed out a 1911 thumb safety? They have to be carefully filed/fitted, even at the factory. If too much material is removed, said safety can allow the sear to slip away despite the safety having been engaged. Glock safety is manufactured to fit. BTW nobody carries at half cock, except maybe John Wick.

 

[bbbass]

People are sold on the Glocks safety that the gun will never fire unless your finger is on the trigger and thats not true.

And your proof of this is?

 

[bbbass]

yeabut wtf? You made seven statements and had four question marks in your post.


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dood, calm down

I was asked to debate. As I said earlier, I choose to put as much info as I could into my opening statement. The question marks were intended to challenge the other debaters to respond. I'm icy calm doooooooooood.

Is your picture your response? If so, the Glock must be carried in a proper holster. So what? That makes it unsafe?

 

[bbbass]

If a person has an AD on a DA/SA pistol with a 10lb trigger and a long pull when holstering. They may want to find a different hobby. I don't think even knitting would be safe.

When holstering. Second shot is still SA. Ya know, lots of 1911 guys have had AD when holstering or even unholstering. The Glock safeties are automatic and don't need engagement by the shooter.

 

[Koda]

That's a more than reasonable request. So, he didn't even have a holster with him?

I cant recall, it was a long time ago. But the lession stuck with me, I was like there is no way that trigger tab would prevent discharge if something snagged it. I agree with you all guns should be holstered or secured, but at least with a 1911 it has a grip safety, along with a half cock that prevents trigger snag discharge (without mentioning the thumb safety...). A lot of my opinion is more about just comparing the mechanics of the two guns, I think the 1911 is "safer" mechanically.

 

[Koda]

Ok, have you ever changed out a 1911 thumb safety? They have to be carefully filed/fitted, even at the factory. If too much material is removed, said safety can allow the sear to slip away despite the safety having been engaged. Glock safety is manufactured to fit. BTW nobody carries at half cock, except maybe John Wick.


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Ive never changed one out, but im aware they have to be fitted and are unlike most guns today that are more "drop in" assemblies.

I dont recall suggesting carrying any gun in a half cock position, thats not what its designed for. If I recall correctly the half cock on a 1911 is another safety in case the grip safety fails?

 

[Koda]

People are sold on the Glocks safety that the gun will never fire unless your finger is on the trigger and thats not true.

And your proof of this is?

I have no proof of that claim except only my own anecdotal experiences like what I shared above about my friend who wouldnt holster his glock. Over the years ive met a few fanboys who think their safe action is foolproof. I spend a lot of time outdoors and they carry them in a variety of ways losely in fanny packs, backpacks, pockets... Sans holster. Glock nightstand guns at home, loaded... It goes on. Try to tell them they need to unload it or put a holster on it they all get upset... "Its got a trigger safety"
(While looking at me like im the dumb one...)


Ive read plenty of news over the years too, husband shoot wife in bed because he kept the glock under the pillow, guy dropped his glock when he fell and something snagged the trigger, cop throws his glock in duffle or range bag after practice and it goes off somewhere down the road, some famouse guy in a nightclub shot himself in the leg pocket carry I think. Plenty of lawsuits suing glock for what was ultimately a poorly designed holster or something caught up in it and the owner too embarrasesd to own up. There was a story of a curios kid who stuck his finger in the holster of a cop and it went off in the holster, didnt properly cover the trigger guard 100% (im surprised to see many new holster still made this way)
Never heard about any lawsuits for a 1911 accidental discharge, cause it would get thrown out for not using the thumb safety.

 

[etrain16]

For those that may not have seen this story from a few years back, it demonstrates how an ND can happen with a bad holster and poor awareness of that holster's condition and position. He got really lucky.

This could have happened with a DA/SA gun, DAO or revolver too as his weight was putting plenty of pressure on the trigger. Would a frame safety have helped? Perhaps, if it were engaged and not accidentally or forgetfully not applied. Would it happen with a gun with a grip safety, probably not. But it's still no excuse to ever allow anything to get inside that trigger guard.

Here is the article - not long, but worth the read: SAFETY WARNING! Worn Leather Holsters Can Cause Accidental Discharges!

Here is what caused the ND - this is a dangerous situation with ANY gun, not just a Glock:

 

[bbbass]

I have no proof of that claim except only my own anecdotal experiences like what I shared above about my friend who wouldnt holster his glock. Over the years ive met a few fanboys who think their safe action is foolproof. I spend a lot of time outdoors and they carry them in a variety of ways losely in fanny packs, backpacks, pockets... Sans holster. Glock nightstand guns at home, loaded... It goes on. Try to tell them they need to unload it or put a holster on it they all get upset... "Its got a trigger safety"
(While looking at me like im the dumb one...)


Ive read plenty of news over the years too, husband shoot wife in bed because he kept the glock under the pillow, guy dropped his glock when he fell and something snagged the trigger, cop throws his glock in duffle or range bag after practice and it goes off somewhere down the road, some famouse guy in a nightclub shot himself in the leg pocket carry I think. Plenty of lawsuits suing glock for what was ultimately a poorly designed holster or something caught up in it and the owner too embarrasesd to own up. There was a story of a curios kid who stuck his finger in the holster of a cop and it went off in the holster, didnt properly cover the trigger guard 100% (im surprised to see many new holster still made this way)
Never heard about any lawsuits for a 1911 accidental discharge, cause it would get thrown out for not using the thumb safety.

Your reaction to the gun on a nightstand reminds me of the "eek eek it's a gun" that I hear from some millenials.

You quoted lots of unsafe practices, unsafe with any gun.

Sue sue sue. 1911s were brought into popularity way before there was a worldwide sue culture.

Btw, for all those commenting about Glock marketing in a negative context, I have a question. How did 1911 get into the civilian market? Answer, like all popular legal for civilian use firearms designs since antiquity it was adopted by the military first in huge contracts. Then service members wanted to carry what they used in service but at home. Then others saw them and liked them. Same marketing as Glock. Sheesh.

Koda, you and I have succeeded in igniting the firestorm that I expected. I think my work is done here.

 

[Koda]

Koda, you and I have succeeded in igniting the firestorm that I expected. I think my work is done here.

Yeah I knew it would spark debate too. Sometimes its just fun to talk gun talk...

We could also start a thread on how a series 70 1911 will discharge if dropped on the muzzle. (A glock never will...)
Or how an AR 15 has nothing preventing it from slamfiring (how many people cycle function test new mags at home with live ammo?)

 

[bbbass]

Yeah I knew it would spark debate too. Sometimes its just fun to talk gun talk...

We could also start a thread on how a series 70 1911 will discharge if dropped on the muzzle. (A glock never will...)
Or how an AR 15 has nothing preventing it from slamfiring (how many people cycle function test new mags at home with live ammo?)

Can we wait awhile? I'm worn out!!!

 

[MrMillspecer]

I have never heard a hunter claim the blade alone on his accu-triggered rifle was safe enough to bust brush or lay it around camp that way. And seconds count when hunting as well. You could use a big holster I guess.

 

[bbbass]

Ok, just one more, you got me.

Hmmm... were there safeties on flintlocks? On older DB shotguns? Did they have a lot of trouble with ADs back in those days?

But leaving your rifle loaded around camp is not the same thing as putting a handgun on a nightstand. I don't keep a 1911 in my nightstand drawer because I'm afraid the jostling will disengage the safety. Then when I pick it up, the safety could be off.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Most Muzzle loaders have a half cock notch to act as a "safety"
Some do not...The cock is either at full cock or in the fired position.
Some , not many , had a safety on the lock which locked the cock in place or the trigger guard , if pushed would do the same.
In my collection of 30 odd originals ... only one has this type of safety.

In the handling and shooting of guns that do not have a safety , it has made me extremely careful of where my finger is and where my muzzle points.... Also it has made me comfortable* with using a gun with out a safety or even not using the gun's mechanical safety.

This not to say that these old guns are safer than a modern gun .. plenty of ND's in old accounts.
Andy
* comfortable as in forcing me to always keep my finger off the trigger and watching where my muzzle is pointing , no matter what gun I am using.

Hmmm... were there safeties on flintlocks? On older DB shotguns? Did they have a lot of trouble with ADs back in those days?