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Front page of Fox News. Feds taking back military gear.

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Oregonhunter5, Nov 24, 2015.

  1. Oregonhunter5

    Oregonhunter5 2C IDAHO Well-Known Member

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  2. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    Good...if true this is the one thing he has done I approve of since he took office. I am sick of people ignoring the threat of militarized private armies roaming our streets disguised as law enforcement. When the government decides to crack down on the people the patriotic soldiers who defend the American people daily in our military will not be the threat. It will be these private armies of police officers that already see the public as the enemy and are more than willing to treat them as such.
     
  3. WAYNO

    WAYNO Oregon City Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Clicked on the link, froze my computer up like the North pole.

    After I got my computer running again, I cut and pasted the link to my browser, only to receive the message that FOX has a problem with this link.:eek:

    More the reason I ignore many threads that have no discussion, other than providing a link.

    But I'll be the article was a good read.:)

    WAYNO.
     
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  4. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    Valuable vehicles and equipment are being yanked from law enforcement agencies across the country by the Obama administration in the wake of the president’s post-Ferguson order -- as sheriffs and lawmakers tell FoxNews.com the equipment is needed, and losing it could put officers and the communities they serve in danger.

    “These things are useful tools and the president taking them away will put more officers in jeopardy and at risk of harm or even death. I don’t know how he can sleep at night knowing his actions will have those repercussions,” Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Ala., told FoxNews.com.

    President Obama issued Executive Order 13688 in January after the 2014 riots in Ferguson, Mo., amid concerns about the “militarization” of the police fueling a heavy-handed response.

    The controversy circled around the 1033 program, set up by the Defense Department in 1997. The program authorizes the Pentagon to send excess military equipment such as armored tracked vehicles, camouflage uniforms and weapons to local law enforcement agencies for no cost. Supporters of the program say it saves money for local agencies, strengthens those agencies and allows the U.S. to get a second use out of existing equipment.

    Obama’s order set up a working group to provide recommendations on changes. The group, headed by officials at the Defense Department, Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice, then drew up a list of items that would either be controlled or prohibited entirely from being acquired via the 1033 program.

    “We’ve seen how militarized gear can sometimes give people a feeling like there’s an occupying force, as opposed to a force that’s part of the community that’s protecting them and serving them. It can alienate and intimidate local residents, and send the wrong message. So we’re going to prohibit some equipment made for the battlefield that is not appropriate for local police departments,” Obama said in May when the report was released.

    Items on the prohibited list include armored tracked vehicles, weaponized aircraft and vehicles, .50-caliber firearms and ammo, bayonets, and camouflage.

    And now the feds are looking to collect.

    A recall of items on the prohibited list that had been handed out via the 1033 program went into effect on Oct. 1, and law enforcement agencies have until April 1, 2016, to return them, a spokeswoman for the Pentagon’s Defense Logistics Agency told FoxNews.com.

    Sheriffs using the program are outraged, saying that the main focus of the initial backlash – the armored tracked vehicles – are purely defensive vehicles that save lives in crisis situations, and double as rescue vehicles in areas with rough terrain.

    Sheriff Mike Bouchard of Oakland County, Mich., told FoxNews.com of a situation in which an active shooter was holed up in his house shooting out of the windows, hitting nearby homes. Bouchard said they were able to use the vehicle to evacuate residents from houses, while also protecting police officers from being shot. During the siege, over 500 rounds of ammunition were exchanged.

    “There’s no question that saved lives,” Bouchard, who is also a former senatorial and gubernatorial candidate, said. “We have letters from people we evacuated saying ‘we don’t know what you could have done to save us without that armored vehicle.'”

    Bouchard said the federal government's crackdown on the equipment is an example of the disconnect between Obama’s claims and reality.

    “His verbiage calls these tanks. These aren’t tanks. There is no offensive weaponry mounted on a tracked armored vehicle in any police department. These are big safe boxes,” he said.

    The vehicles themselves aren’t banned, only those distributed under the 1033 program. However, many counties received their vehicles free-of-charge, and won’t be able to afford to buy one of their own – something they say makes their officers less safe.

    “Our agency is not big, we have a total of 130 employees, and we don’t have quarter-of-a-million-dollar budget to buy one,” Sheriff Larry Amerson of Calhoun County, Ala., told FoxNews.com. “The 1033 program gave us the opportunity to get that for free, which was in my view a no brainer.”

    Amerson added that in the light of the Paris terror attacks, the president’s order is even more concerning.

    “As has been demonstrated in Paris, the potential for those kind of attacks is there, and the response to those attacks in the U.S. will be local law enforcement and whatever resources we have on hand now will be what we can bring to the table if that happens,” he said.

    "Sheriffs are very angry. It's a tool in our toolbox being taken away from us."

    - Sheriff Paul Laney

    Sheriff Paul Laney of Cass County, N.D., who also serves on the Board of the National Sheriffs' Association, says that the anger is shared by sheriffs across the country.

    “Sheriffs are very angry. It’s a tool in our toolbox being taken away from us based on perception. When we show up with a piece of equipment to save lives it can’t always look safe and cozy,” Laney told FoxNews.com.

    While the armored vehicles are the main focus of the sheriffs' concern, some questioned why other items such as bayonets are being recalled.

    Bouchard said that his department had lost 16 bayonets that were used primarily for honor guards, funerals and other ceremonial purposes, but also would be kept in trunks for their use as wire cutters, including cutting the seatbelts of car crash victims.

    “No police department charges up the hill with bayonets on their rifles,” he laughed. “Apparently [President Obama] thinks it’s too scary for us to have a big knife."

    Bouchard said that the order is self-defeating and that while his county still has one armored vehicle remaining that is allowed (because it has wheels, not tracks) it will force nearby counties that can afford it to go out and buy their own vehicle.

    The DLA spokeswoman said the agency is making arrangements to transfer the vehicles to DOD military training ranges to be used as more realistic targets for aviators and ground forces.

    Due to the executive order, there is little than can be done immediately at the congressional level. However, Rep. Rogers, who sits on the House Armed Services Committee, told FoxNews.com he is working on next year’s National Defense Authorization Act to try and get the equipment back in the hands of law enforcement in 2016.

    Rogers wrote to Obama last week and pledged he would “push the Congress to undo this reckless action.”

    “It’s offensive to law enforcement to take this back and to imply that it is being abused by law enforcement," Rogers told FoxNews.com.

    However, the president's move has seen continued support from civil rights groups, such as the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU).

    “Through this ban, the president has taken a critical step towards rebuilding trust between police and the people they have pledged to serve," the group said in a statement when the ban was announced in May. "Grenade launchers, high-caliber weapons, armored vehicles – this equipment never belonged in our neighborhoods."


    Adam Shaw is a Politics Reporter for FoxNews.com. He can be reached here or on Twitter: @AdamShawNY.
     
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  5. druiseeker

    druiseeker Salem Member 2015 Volunteer

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    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...fficers-in-wake-obama-order.html?intcmp=hpbt1

    Though I think both sides of this have good points, I think it boils down to saving lives vs the appearance of political correctness and action before an election. The main issue is the armored vehicles. They're NOT armed. Is there any purpose for them other than an active shooter situation?

    I think there IS potential for abuse if things change in our society. If things stay the way they are now...
     
  6. nammac

    nammac I-5 Corridor - West of Portland Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

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    I am totally against the
    militarization of local police... I believe they should indeed have the necessary equipment to safly do their jobs. But not be militarized... Who at they at war against????
     
  7. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    Caveman Jim likes this.
  8. druiseeker

    druiseeker Salem Member 2015 Volunteer

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    This isn't war equipment. Other than the unarmed armored vehicles, what's being taken away? Armed aircraft? Was any police department even issued that stuff? Hell, even if it's taken away, there is nothing preventing them going out and buying them from the manufacturers.
     
  9. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    Sadly, if you ask many of them these days they would answer "The public."
     
  10. Charliehorse

    Charliehorse Cascade Mts - State of Jefferson USA Well-Known Member

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    Cleared cookies and temp files lately?
     
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  11. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    Smoke, Mirrors
     
  12. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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  13. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    I don't often agree with PP, but I do this time.
    Cops are supposed to be cops, not a para-military unit. Community policing of the armored variety only serves to further the notion that we are supposed to be totally subservient to the people we hire to protect our cities and communities.
    I do find the timing of this rather curious however.
    And as Mr. 308 has so succinctly pointed out, there's a number of cops that shouldn't be trusted with this kind of hardware in the first place.
     
  14. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    Makes me wonder why obozo would choose to take armored vehicles now??? is it getting ready for Isis and wants isis to have the upper hand. I just do not trust obozo.
     
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  15. Oregonhunter5

    Oregonhunter5 2C IDAHO Well-Known Member

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    Huh? He's taking the equipment back. I didn't like the vehicles in the first place. Now why is he taking them away? Afraid the blacks will get mowed down, when they act like jungle animals?
     
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  16. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    I must say, there is another aspect to this. Obama HAS had trouble with sheriffs speaking out against his proposals.
    So why not ensure that DHS and any other alphabet federal agency has the upper hand in equipment?
    Disarming sheriffs disarms the highest level of elected law enforcement. That being the LE closest to the people and the local decision makers.
    If he wants to disarm big city police depts. with appointed policy makers that's one thing.
    But if he's just out to disarm the people most likely to take issue with his policies, that's something else again.

    At this point I may just have to make myself a new tinfoil hat and ponder over this one awhile.
     
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  17. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    The "hands up, don't shoot" crowd was scared because they saw unarmed vehicles. I'm scared, offended, and insulted every time I see the current occupant of the white house. Should we get rid of him because of that?
     
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  18. nammac

    nammac I-5 Corridor - West of Portland Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

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    Unfortunately, a small cross-section of our society seems to want to be at war with the police...

    I suspect many of those who want to wage war on the police have had many encounters with the police.

    However, as a law abiding citizen, I feel it's wiser to partner with them. As for me personally, if I ever find myself in a situation where is officer is in need of help, I'd step
    up to have their backs... It's my community too...
     
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  19. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    I like it. Let's just put the cops back to being cops.
    There is the Nat Guard for other things.
    I know y'all want to be against it because the bazo said it should be so. But the more we get law enforcement back to being street cops with there little 6 shot revolvers the better.
    A guy who worked at the Bull's Eye in Tacoma was a cop in Belgium at some time. They carried 380's. I asked why that little gun. He said because the guys who came for back up had MP5s.
    Maybe make cops like in the UK. Take their guns away ,except those who have qualified and can actually hit someone with their gun
    I don't see a problem with this.
     
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  20. Oregonhunter5

    Oregonhunter5 2C IDAHO Well-Known Member

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    I see your thoughts. But I have never known the idiot to do something right. Ever. So I see this as suspect.