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Free Trade/Free Markets

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by CEF1959, Aug 27, 2009.

  1. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

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    If the price of a full auto AK in Mogadishu is (say) $100, and the price of a full auto AK in the US is (say) $10,000, a free market would correct that. People would scarf up arms in Somalia and sell them in the US. And we'd reach an equilibrium of supply and demand. But we can't. Because there is no free market here.

    So much for politicians with big pie-holes screeching about the importance of free markets.

    Just a thought. Thanks for listening.
     
  2. el gringo loco

    el gringo loco PDX Member

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    Except I read recently that the fair market value for an AK at an arms bazaar in Africa was more like $8 US.....but I get your point. That's why the whole "the Mexican cartels get their guns from the USA" argument doesn't hold water. The market is so saturated with cheap full auto guns in other parts of the world, Mexico doesn't need the US to get firepower. A $600 semi auto WASR AK is not as cool as a full auto for a fracton of the price.
     
  3. PeakResources

    PeakResources Portland (past) Colorado (now) Member

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    In the US, we like to think of ourselves as "free market". However, from guns (as you point out) to healthcare, to home loans, we've not been a free market for a long time. The government comes in and distorts the markets for each of these to a great extent. The people of the US would prefer to give up liberty, freedom, and free markets to impose the will of the majority on those of us in the minority. The will of the majority is usually to restrict the actions of others ("do gooders" or "world improvers") or to gather resources to themselves (people who vote based upon what it puts in their pocket). The politicians play on this because it's beneficial for them; they get re-elected.

    And voilla! Free markets become eroded and distorted.
     
  4. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

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    It's the hypocrisy of champions of "free trade," "free markets," and "freedom" generally that bugs me most. They love the free market rhetoric and to tell us we have to "fight for freedom" or prevent people who "hate freedom" from running amok. Except when it applies to agricultural subsidies, guns, cigarettes, drugs (both legal and prescription), etc. etc.

    Even NAFTA and other Western Hemisphere "free trade" agreements aren't. NAFTA allows the tariff-free movement of goods and services, but not free movement of labor. The result is that companies can chase the lowest price labor, which is immobile. They make huge money, and the workers suffer.

    When Europe created its common market in 1954 with the Treaty of Rome, there were four stated freedoms, each of which was essential to the whole concept. In addition to the free movement of capital, goods, and services, was the free movement of labor. Europe isn't generally a model of freedom or free markets, but they understood that without the free movement of labor, the free movement of goods and services would just be a cloak for business to make big money at the expense of labor.

    I want a $100 full auto AK.

    :::jumping off the soapbox now:::
     
  5. aslinged

    aslinged Southern Oregon Well-Known Member

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    There's a whole more at stake than the price of a full auto Ak, or prices on anything. A nation without control over its money supply is a slave state. Welcome to IOUSA.
     
  6. unionguy

    unionguy Portland Active Member

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    Free markets are a complete myth. They've never existed and never will. Every market has rules, its just a matter of what the rules are. Markets can be more or less "open" but that doesn't end the real question: what are the rules (laws) governing the markets and who do they benefit.

    For example, even the simple act of defining what property is (think intellectual property), damages for infringement, etc and voila you have rules governing the market.

    The myth of "free trade" has mostly been a club (via the movement of capital) to beat workers across the world into submission and make less and less money to the benefit of corporate profits and CEO pay.

    In fact, this the greatest threat to freedom and democracy going on. When the people of a state or nation vote for something and then it is struck down by an unelected WTO do we really have democracy anymore? This has already happened multiple times.

    Go read Adam Smith, the father of "free markets". He actually assumed there would be many existing obligations between everyone in the market that would look nothing like the "free markets" that are advocated today. He assumed these obligations would hold because, in his day, markets were fairly small, people knew each other, and were bound by the standards of their community. Adam Smith couldn't even contemplate a Wal-Mart due to its size, lack of any obligation to its communities or its employees.

    The myth of "free trade" has become a tool that serves the interests of the global megacorporations that care nothing for America or Americans.
     
  7. aslinged

    aslinged Southern Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Amen brother, amen.
     
  8. Contract_Pilot

    Contract_Pilot Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    I know where multiple 20-40' containers of AK's are right now $15KUSD per 20' and $28K Per 40' to bad we could not import them best of all the container is yours to keep.

    I wonder how many AK's fit in each size container?