First ladder test

[Koda]

What is the bullet weight and type you are using?

Barnes 150g TSX for 30-30

 

[drstrangelove]

In regards to that I believe that is what gas checks are for if I'm not mistaken.

A gas check is a brass cap for a bare lead bullet base or a spacer in a shotgun shell between the powder and the wad. There is no formal solution for a bottleneck cartridge. Most manufacturers state never to drop below 80% of ladder start. And the biggest issue with airdet is with Holy Black, not smokeless powder.

 

[Local Loader]

Barnes 150g TSX for 30-30

What are the charge weights that you are using?

 

[Local Loader]

A gas check is a brass cap for a bare lead bullet base or a spacer in a shotgun shell between the powder and the wad. There is no formal solution for a bottleneck cartridge. Most manufacturers state never to drop below 80% of ladder start. And the biggest issue with airdet is with Holy Black, not smokeless powder.

Good to know, never had to use them so wasn't sure, thanks.

 

[Koda]

What are the charge weights that you are using?

per Barnes load data
min 32.7, max 36.3c

I haven't loaded anything yet....

https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/30-30-Winchester.pdf

 

[Local Loader]

I'd personally avoid compression loads as there can be greater risk to the firearm and/or yourself. I'd make 6 rounds and do 2 @ 33gr, 2 @ 34gr and 2 @ 35gr and go from there and see how well they work.
Also I would fill the case fully with powder than see how far the bullet is going to stick inside the case(don't use that press yet). After you know how far the bullet needs the set inside, remove just enough powder to allow the bullet to seat without compression of the powder. Weight it and than use that as your max load number for safe.

 

[Koda]

I would have never imagined that loading for the classic 3030 would be this complicated.

 

[drstrangelove]

I would have never imagined that loading for the classic 3030 would be this complicated.

Reloading is not complicated. It's LR powder that is complicated. It's a powder meant to bring a 30-30 to 308 levels, 308 to 30-06, 30-06 to 300win mag… you're basically increasing the velocity 200-300fps by using this powder, and physics is physics. It's hot stuff. Older rifle designs aren't meant to take the abuse… 336, 1894 are over 100yr old designs. The Browning BLR can handle it. It's got recoil lugs on the bolt. Marlins and Winchesters use elevating bars of steel to lock. And if they get indented, they don't tend to slide out of the way very well.

 

[Local Loader]

I would have never imagined that loading for the classic 3030 would be this complicated.

Yeah, I discovered that fun little process when I was loading some Barnes TTSX for deer season and found I'd get a compression load without even touching max load. Once you figure it out it becomes easier to do and it helps figure out future loads.

 

[Mikej]

Plated will have as much friction as jacketed, and should follow jacketed data.

This is contrary to everything I've read/understand. Pushing plated bullets to FMJ velocities can cause the softer plating to come apart. Polymer coated bullets should be loaded to cast data.

I would have never imagined that loading for the classic 3030 would be this complicated.

That's my latest NEW cartridge. I don't load for max velocities/hunting though. After some research here I settled on IMR 3031 with 150gr plated Berry's and it worked very well. Only difference was deciding to get a Lee factory crimp die seeing as you should roll crimp that round. As a separate step it went very smooth. You don't have to worry as much about wonky roll crimps because of case length being a little different.

 

[Koda]

Reloading is not complicated. It's LR powder that is complicated.

I guess I just expected published load data to always be a safe starting point. I realize not everything is always equal, but thats why at the very least starting at the published minimum should be safe in all rifles. , otherwise whats the point of following load data?

 

[drstrangelove]

I guess I just expected published load data to always be a safe starting point. I realize not everything is always equal, but thats why at the very least starting at the published minimum should be safe in all rifles. , otherwise whats the point of following load data?

I respect your frustration; these are generally safe guidelines for modern rifles. Antiques or heirlooms need to be loaded with respect. Take the 30-06 M1 Garand for instance. It was developed for a 150gr bullet traveling under 2500fps. Modern recipes that indicate velocities of 2700-2800fps will break the oprod. You will see differences in 45-70 loaded for trap door Springfield milder than Marlin lever actions which are loaded milder than single shot TC rifles. Your ladder test is not only to check for flattened primers, it's to check for rifle function and tolerance. If your bolt locks stuck before you see a flattened primer, your rifle can't handle LR powder at the suggested charges. That's why I suggested starting 10-20% under the ladder start.

 

[Mikej]

I guess I just expected published load data to always be a safe starting point. I realize not everything is always equal, but thats why at the very least starting at the published minimum should be safe in all rifles. , otherwise whats the point of following load data?

Starting data is simply results of a certain recipe.

Taking burn rates into consideration, in this case, would have led me to believe that Leverevolution was used to milk every bit of velocity they could get and still stay under max pressure for .30-30.
Curious that the Hodgeon data site doesn't even list leverevoluting for .30-30?

 

[drstrangelove]

This is contrary to everything I've read/understand. Pushing plated bullets to FMJ velocities can cause the softer plating to come apart. Polymer coated bullets should be loaded to cast data.

That's my latest NEW cartridge. I don't load for max velocities/hunting though. After some research here I settled on IMR 3031 with 150gr plated Berry's and it worked very well. Only difference was deciding to get a Lee factory crimp die seeing as you should roll crimp that round. As a separate step it went very smooth. You don't have to worry as much about wonky roll crimps because of case length being a little different.

Agree on plated bullets with three caveats. First, plated bullets should generally never be run faster than 1500-1600, or the plating will disintegrate. Second, copper plating and copper jackets have the same friction coefficient and if you are loading for pistol, care needs to be taken to avoid a squib. I always start laddering plated bullets at the higher end of the lead data that crosses into the lower end of jacketed data. If it functions and groups OK, I am done. Third, be cautious with roll crimping plated bullets. After seeing my buddy pull some in a 9mm that he had used an old crimp die for (I told him not to, and buy a taper crimp die), the bullets were 100% dented, and 50% had broken through the plating. If you are trying to avoid barrel leading, apply a very light crimp, and use the cannelure.

 

[Koda]

That's why I suggested starting 10-20% under the ladder start.

Ok, but then I run the risk of "dieseling" the undercharge?

 

[Local Loader]

Curious that the Hodgeon data site doesn't even list leverevoluting for .30-30?

Hodgdon does have 30-30 load data it's listed as LVR in the drop down menu.

 

[drstrangelove]

Ok, but then I run the risk of "dieseling" the undercharge?

It's usually only a concern lower than 80% of ladder's bottom

 

[Mikej]

Agree on plated bullets with three caveats. First, plated bullets should generally never be run faster than 1500-1600, or the plating will disintegrate. Second, copper plating and copper jackets have the same friction coefficient and if you are loading for pistol, care needs to be taken to avoid a squib. I always start laddering plated bullets at the higher end of the lead data that crosses into the lower end of jacketed data. If it functions and groups OK, I am done. Third, be cautious with roll crimping plated bullets. After seeing my buddy pull some in a 9mm that he had used an old crimp die for (I told him not to, and buy a taper crimp die), the bullets were 100% dented, and 50% had broken through the plating. If you are trying to avoid barrel leading, apply a very light crimp, and use the cannelure.

Agreed.

The Berry's rated theirs at 1900. And BadMan coated rated their 16BHN at 2200.
I did get to see how my crimp affected the Berry's bullets. Because I goofed and didn't make sure my finished cartridge would chamber. Derp. I was a little heavy on the crimp. After some adjustment to a proper OAL, and a lighter crimp, it shot very well.