Firearms Laws and Questions

[loudandclear]

Changing the subject.


is shooting silhouette targets illegal in washington?

I want to start practicing to shoot competition. They generally use these cardboard targets.

BHI Cardboard Silhouette Target
I've heard that it is illegal in Washington state to use Silhouette targets.

When I was at a range the range master gave us paper targets of human silhouettes that were left overs from the cops.

Just wondering if anyone had any real data or information either way.

 

[m1gunr]

Changing the subject.


is shooting silhouette targets illegal in washington?

I want to start practicing to shoot competition. They generally use these cardboard targets.

BHI Cardboard Silhouette Target
I've heard that it is illegal in Washington state to use Silhouette targets.

When I was at a range the range master gave us paper targets of human silhouettes that were left overs from the cops.

Just wondering if anyone had any real data or information either way.

Some years ago (10+) Mass tried to pass a law forbidding the use of human silhouettes at some of its Class A & B ranges. Someone posted this info and it got passed to other states and folks just assumed it was law.

There is no RCW against using them. Most ranges will not let you use faces of current political figures.

WAC 332-52-145: Firearms and target shooting.


Here's a list of places that offer FREE printable targets.

http://www.mytargets.com/

http://www.reloadbench.com/pdf.html

http://www.targetz.com/

http://nssf.org/hunting/news/turkey-target.cfm

making a silhouette target for 20-30 cents
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZsOX_MYfOo&feature=player_embedded#at=151

 

[Fishnutz]

I have a question about California's high capacity law...
I will be traveling down there this summer for a couple of weeks, hopefully with my Glock. My question is, can I bring my 15 round mags or do i have to leave them here and find small capacity ones (under 10). My Glock and I are Oregon residents, meaning it is registered here in Oregon. Ive tried googling it with no luck, any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[pchewn]

I have a question about California's high capacity law...
I will be traveling down there this summer for a couple of weeks, hopefully with my Glock. My question is, can I bring my 15 round mags or do i have to leave them here and find small capacity ones (under 10). My Glock and I are Oregon residents, meaning it is registered here in Oregon. Ive tried googling it with no luck, any help would be greatly appreciated

How do you "register" a gun in Oregon? Oregon has no gun registration that I know of.

 

[Fishnutz]

How do you "register" a gun in Oregon? Oregon has no gun registration that I know of.

Meaning I bought it new here, had to put it in my name. Doesn't that mean the gun is registered in my name? Or have I been misled?

Thanks for not helping!

 

[phathom]

Meaning I bought it new here, had to put it in my name. Doesn't that mean the gun is registered in my name? Or have I been misled?

Thanks for not helping!

No it does not. Oregon does not have any registration. A background check is done on you, but by law, the records must be destroyed afterwards. How true this is, is up to debate, there is most likely some federal database that the local ones get backed up to when they are "destroyed" but no, officially, Oregon has no registration.

Also, I just got back from California myself, I looked up the laws on it pretty intensely as well.
1: You cannot bring an assembled magazine, with the exception of a tube style magazine permanently attached to a rifle, into the state of California if it's capacity is above 10.
Meaning you can bring in parts for a high capacity magazine, but not assembled, nor can you assemble it, unless the magazine was already in California before the ban went into place, and you are using the parts for repair.
Basically, bring 10 round mags and don't worry about the hassle. I had to replace a follower on mine that brought one of my 10 round mags to 12 rounds back to factory when I went down.
2: When transporting the gun, it must be unloaded, in a locked container, that cannot be your glovebox or utility box. Most police down there prefer it if the ammunition is stored in a different location, even if that location is on you, in a glovebox, or wherever, but there is no law about it.
3: I couldn't find any laws about this one, but my father-in-law is a recently retired police officer down there and he said that, even though it is locked and unloaded, it must not be within arms reach of the driver, however this is probably one of those things that is a preference on how each precinct interprets the law, as I could not find anything on this as well.

That being said, I had mine in it's factory case, unloaded, with 2 mags in the case, had it locked, with key easily available in the drivers side door. I timed myself and within 5-10 seconds could have it unlocked, loaded, and ready to go.

 

[Fishnutz]

No it does not. Oregon does not have any registration. A background check is done on you, but by law, the records must be destroyed afterwards. How true this is, is up to debate, there is most likely some federal database that the local ones get backed up to when they are "destroyed" but no, officially, Oregon has no registration.

Also, I just got back from California myself, I looked up the laws on it pretty intensely as well.
1: You cannot bring an assembled magazine, with the exception of a tube style magazine permanently attached to a rifle, into the state of California if it's capacity is above 10.
Meaning you can bring in parts for a high capacity magazine, but not assembled, nor can you assemble it, unless the magazine was already in California before the ban went into place, and you are using the parts for repair.
Basically, bring 10 round mags and don't worry about the hassle. I had to replace a follower on mine that brought one of my 10 round mags to 12 rounds back to factory when I went down.
2: When transporting the gun, it must be unloaded, in a locked container, that cannot be your glovebox or utility box. Most police down there prefer it if the ammunition is stored in a different location, even if that location is on you, in a glovebox, or wherever, but there is no law about it.
3: I couldn't find any laws about this one, but my father-in-law is a recently retired police officer down there and he said that, even though it is locked and unloaded, it must not be within arms reach of the driver, however this is probably one of those things that is a preference on how each precinct interprets the law, as I could not find anything on this as well.

That being said, I had mine in it's factory case, unloaded, with 2 mags in the case, had it locked, with key easily available in the drivers side door. I timed myself and within 5-10 seconds could have it unlocked, loaded, and ready to go.

Question answered!! Thankyou phathom

 

[BobSigP229R]

This is a question of curiosity. I hypothetically had to defend myself with my pistol and in the process I shot the bad guy. Generally, will the police confinscate my pistol? This is assuming I didn't break any laws in my carrying and there was a threat to me and my family. Thanks, Bob

 

[ablaut]

Can I carry on Willamette National Refuges?
Ok, I need some clarification on the issue of concealed carry on US Fish & Wildlife Service grounds, aka National Wildlife Refuges.

This Plan Your Visit page for Baskett Slough National Wildlife Refuges explicitly state it "is unlawful for persons to carry a concealed weapon on any of the Willamette Valley Refuges." However, a similar page makes no mention of it.

Furthermore, a February 2010 Announcement states that

...the [federal] law allows an individual to lawfully possess a firearm within the boundaries of a National Wildlife Refuge in accordance with federal, state and local firearms laws.
...
As directed by this new law, the Service will look to the laws of the state and locality in which the refuge or refuge unit is located to govern possession of firearms on the refuge....Persons with so-called firearm "carry" permits will be able to possess firearms on a refuge in accordance with the provisions of the state issued permit

Websites for parks (both state and national) are notoriously slow at updating their sites. Is the provision barring concealed carry old information? Or does the local (Willamette National Wildlife Refuge) ordinance stand?

 

[Kimber Custom]

This is a question of curiosity. I hypothetically had to defend myself with my pistol and in the process I shot the bad guy. Generally, will the police confinscate my pistol? This is assuming I didn't break any laws in my carrying and there was a threat to me and my family. Thanks, Bob

Yes, your gun will be collected as evidence at the scene and held until the case is settled.

There have been a few threads talking about having two of the same gun so that in this case you are prepared to continue to carry the gun you are most comfortable with.

 

[Kimber Custom]

Can I carry on Willamette National Refuges?
Ok, I need some clarification on the issue of concealed carry on US Fish & Wildlife Service grounds, aka National Wildlife Refuges.

This Plan Your Visit page for Baskett Slough National Wildlife Refuges explicitly state it "is unlawful for persons to carry a concealed weapon on any of the Willamette Valley Refuges." However, a similar page makes no mention of it.

Furthermore, a February 2010 Announcement states that



Websites for parks (both state and national) are notoriously slow at updating their sites. Is the provision barring concealed carry old information? Or does the local (Willamette National Wildlife Refuge) ordinance stand?

Obama made it legal to carry in National Parks through executive order last year. Report the inconsistancy to the site with bad information.

It is still illegal to carry inside a Federal building (park ranger office for instance).

 

[ablaut]

Obama made it legal to carry in National Parks through executive order last year. Report the inconsistancy to the site with bad information.

It is still illegal to carry inside a Federal building (park ranger office for instance).

Thank you. This is what I thought. And when I visited, there were no signs posted.

I will report the error to the site admin...though who knows how long before it's actually updated. Does anyone have a copy of the law text? I searched, but could not find it. Sending it along with my complaint would be helpful.

 

[joeroket]

Obama made it legal to carry in National Parks through executive order last year. Report the inconsistancy to the site with bad information.

It is still illegal to carry inside a Federal building (park ranger office for instance).

It was Bush that tried to change it with an EO. It was struck down by a federal judge and then a rider was placed in the Credit Card Reform Act of 2009 which Obama signed into law. The law also does not over ride state laws that might restrict carry in parks.

 

[MikeSettles]

Beg to differ: It is NOT illegal to carry inside a Federal facility, as long as you meet one of the exceptions under Title 18, Sec 930, subsection (d). There are three exceptions (two for Federal Courthouses): (1) Law Enforcement officials; (2) Military on duty; (3) Lawful purposes (such as "hunting") (I suspect that "self-defense" qualifies as a lawful purpose).

Many of the supervisors/federal officials are unaware of these exceptions, and heartily believe the myth that no civilian can carry in a Federal Facility. They are wrong.

<broken link removed>

 

[m1gunr]

Beg to differ: It is NOT illegal to carry inside a Federal facility, as long as you meet one of the exceptions under Title 18, Sec 930, subsection (d). There are three exceptions (two for Federal Courthouses): (1) Law Enforcement officials; (2) Military on duty; (3) Lawful purposes (such as "hunting") (I suspect that "self-defense" qualifies as a lawful purpose).

Many of the supervisors/federal officials are unaware of these exceptions, and heartily believe the myth that no civilian can carry in a Federal Facility. They are wrong.

<broken link removed>

As to the exception in 930(d)(3) for "the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes," please be aware that there is no federal case discussing the meaning of this specific exception to the law. While some claim it means that a person lawfully carrying a holstered handgun for self defense in a National Park should be able to carry it into the visitor's center, since self defense is "a lawful purpose," the people making such claims are not federal judges. The plain truth is that this provision has never been tested in federal court. The downside of being the first test case is that failure carries the potential penalty of federal prison.

Remember that the federal judges who will determine such cases work in federal buildings, and their viewpoint may be colored by their particular circumstance.

 

[MikeSettles]

m1gnr: I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Any federal judge who says that "Lawful Purposes" doesn't include self-defense, well, his decision flies in the face of Heller. Yes, I realize that Heller was a narrow scope decision where they said that citizens have the right to a pistol in their homes. But they also said that self-defense is a lawful purpose. Strict scrutiny also applies, since self-defense has finally been defined as a "Civil Right". The judge would eventually have his decision slapped down on appeal (we can hope): Some wouldn't care.

I guess that we need Alan Gura to step up on this one.

By the way: No, I'm not a lawyer, and I won't pretend to be, but I can read.

Cheers!

 

[bdb benzino]

I have a question,
I was told by an OSP officer that concealed carry of a handgun is legal with out a permit, as long as you are on your way to OR hiking, hunting, shooting outdoors. Its sort of a loophole for the outdoorsman to leaglly CC, is that true?

 

[Kimber Custom]

Correct:

166.260 Persons not affected by ORS 166.250. (1) ORS 166.250 does not apply to or affect:

(a) Sheriffs, constables, marshals, parole and probation officers, police officers, whether active or honorably retired, or other duly appointed peace officers.

(b) Any person summoned by any such officer to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace, while said person so summoned is actually engaged in assisting the officer.

(c) The possession or transportation by any merchant of unloaded firearms as merchandise.

(d) Active or reserve members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard or Marine Corps of the United States, or of the National Guard, when on duty.

(e) Organizations which are by law authorized to purchase or receive weapons described in ORS 166.250 from the United States, or from this state.

(f) Duly authorized military or civil organizations while parading, or the members thereof when going to and from the places of meeting of their organization.

(g) A corrections officer while transporting or accompanying an individual convicted of or arrested for an offense and confined in a place of incarceration or detention while outside the confines of the place of incarceration or detention.

(h) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun.

(2) It is an affirmative defense to a charge of violating ORS 166.250 (1)(c)(C) that the person has been granted relief from the disability under ORS 166.274.

(3) Except for persons who are otherwise prohibited from possessing a firearm under ORS 166.250 (1)(c) or 166.270, ORS 166.250 does not apply to or affect:

(a) Members of any club or organization, for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets upon the established target ranges, whether public or private, while such members are using any of the firearms referred to in ORS 166.250 upon such target ranges, or while going to and from such ranges.

(b) Licensed hunters or fishermen while engaged in hunting or fishing, or while going to or returning from a hunting or fishing expedition.
(4) The exceptions listed in subsection (1)(b) to (h) of this section constitute affirmative defenses to a charge of violating ORS 166.250. [Amended by 1977 c.207 §1; 1991 c.67 §36; 1993 c.735 §1; 1995 c.670 §2; 1999 c.1040 §3; 2009 c.316 §2; 2009 c.499 §4]

 

[phathom]

I have a question,
I was told by an OSP officer that concealed carry of a handgun is legal with out a permit, as long as you are on your way to OR hiking, hunting, shooting outdoors. Its sort of a loophole for the outdoorsman to leaglly CC, is that true?

True, but only applies to licensed hunting or fishing. Hiking still requires it, shooting still requires it, but hey, if you're out somewhere hiking, or shooting you can open carry with no permit. You just can't have it loaded if you're in city limits of Beaverton, Portland, Oregon City, Salem, Tigard, and Independence, in those it has to be unloaded if you OC, everywhere else you're fine.

To make it easy though, just get your CHL, then 99.5% of all those restrictions of where or where not just melt away.

 

[iomatic]

Yes bottom line, get the CHL. You need a gun safety certificate from an NRA instructor or from the Sheriff's office. Takes approx. 3 weeks to get an appt., then at least another 3 weeks to complete the bgrd. check, prior to sending you the license.