Firearms Laws and Questions

[PhysicsGuy]

Here is a place to inform other users of important laws and regulations regarding firearms in our area, also it is a place to ask questions to others.

Please if you are going to state if something is legal or not, quote the exact law/statute/code on here, and cite a reference

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[PhysicsGuy]

Since this was recently discussed in another thread. face to face (FTF) or private firearm transactions between states is prohibited by federal law.

This is prohibited by Title 27 § 178.29 and § 178.30 of the code of federal regulations

§ 178.29 Out-of-State acquisition of
firearms by nonlicensees.
No person, other than a licensed importer,
licensed manufacturer, licensed
dealer, or licensed collector, shall
transport into or receive in the State
where the person resides (or if a corporation
or other business entity,
where it maintains a place of business)
any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained
by such person outside that
State: Provided, That the provisions of
this section:
(a) Shall not preclude any person who
lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest
or intestate succession in a State other
than his State of residence from transporting
the firearm into or receiving it
in that State, if it is lawful for such
person to purchase or possess such firearm
in that State,
(b) Shall not apply to the transportation
or receipt of a rifle or shotgun
obtained from a licensed manufacturer,
licensed importer, licensed dealer, or
licensed collector in a State other than
the transferee's State of residence in
an over-the-counter transaction at the
licensee's premises obtained in conformity
with the provisions of
§ 178.96(c) and
(c) Shall not apply to the transportation
or receipt of a firearm obtained
in conformity with the provisions of
§§ 178.30 and 178.97.
[T.D. ATF–270, 53 FR 10493, Mar. 31, 1988]

§ 178.30 Out-of-State disposition of
firearms by nonlicensees.
No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell,
trade, give, transport, or deliver any
firearm to any other nonlicensee, who
the transferor knows or has reasonable
cause to believe does not reside in (or if
the person is a corporation or other
business entity, does not maintain a
place of business in) the State in which
the transferor resides: Provided, That
the provisions of this section:
(a) shall not apply to the transfer,
transportation, or delivery of a firearm
made to carry out a bequest of a firearm
to, or any acquisition by intestate
succession of a firearm by, a person
who is permitted to acquire or possess
a firearm under the laws of the State of
his residence; and
(b) shall not apply to the loan or
rental of a firearm to any person for
temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
[T.D. ATF–313, 56 FR 32508, July 17, 1991; 57
FR 1205, Jan. 10, 1992]

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/aprqtr/pdf/27cfr178.31.pdf

 

[treemanx]

Thanks Physicsguy, its good to have a place to send noobies that dont know about these laws.

 

[nwwoodsman]

So about buying a gun from a guy out of state? Here's the situation.What if a guy, with complete ignorance of this law, from Oregon buys a hunting rifle in Oregon from a guy who brings it over from Vancouver. Say this guy sticks the rifle in his closet for a few months and then reads about this law prohibiting ftf sales from out of state. Should the guy turn the rifle in and risk getting arrested, burn all reciepts and bury the rifle in the ocean, or just hold onto it thinking nothing will ever come of it? :huh:

 

[treemanx]

I would probably take the gun to an FFL and have the gun transfered into my name. Should be as simple as that. If there is any question by the FFL at the time of transfer, just be honest and say that you thought you were making a legal transaction, but you found out later that it was an issue, and you wanted to get it straightened out. There shouldnt be any problem with that, and you will be covering your butt from any later possible questions or issues.

 

[wichaka]

So about buying a gun from a guy out of state? Here's the situation.What if a guy, with complete ignorance of this law, from Oregon buys a hunting rifle in Oregon from a guy who brings it over from Vancouver. Say this guy sticks the rifle in his closet for a few months and then reads about this law prohibiting ftf sales from out of state. Should the guy turn the rifle in and risk getting arrested, burn all reciepts and bury the rifle in the ocean, or just hold onto it thinking nothing will ever come of it? :huh:

One of Murphys more obscure laws...........No good deed goes unpunished.

Chalk it up to lack of knowledge, and move on with life.

 

[PropellerHead]

Can anyone tell me what is involved in a C&R transfer, and if a 1965 Makarov would qualify for such a transfer?

Thanks in advance!

Mike

 

[pdxjohann]

Prop Hed, ATF.gov has a list - nasty obfuscated by factual detail list - but a list.

 

[jdub]

So according to what I read above my own family (i.e. grandfather) can't give me or say leave to me his hunting rifles or any other firearm?? All because he does not live in the same state??? I am blown away by that!! :angry: Actually a little peeved.. :complain: But such as life I suppose.

 

[PhysicsGuy]

So according to what I read above my own family (i.e. grandfather) can't give me or say leave to me his hunting rifles or any other firearm?? All because he does not live in the same state??? I am blown away by that!! :angry: Actually a little peeved.. :complain: But such as life I suppose.

There is an exception for inheritance;

(a) shall not apply to the transfer,
transportation, or delivery of a firearm
made to carry out a bequest of a firearm
to, or any acquisition by intestate
succession of a firearm by, a person
who is permitted to acquire or possess
a firearm under the laws of the State of
his residence;

 

[jdub]

Yes however should he decide to give them to me while he is alive, he (giving) and therefore I (receiving the item), would be breaking the law. I just think that is crazy. But apparently its the world we live in.

 

[PhysicsGuy]

Yes however should he decide to give them to me while he is alive, he (giving) and therefore I (receiving the item), would be breaking the law. I just think that is crazy. But apparently its the world we live in.

"bequest" is considered giving, so it could be "bequeathed" to him from a living relative.

 

[CEF1959]

"bequest" is considered giving, so it could be "bequeathed" to him from a living relative.

I disagree. A bequest is a gift by operation of a will. A gift from a living relative would just be a regular gift, and the statutes you quoted explicitly ban interstate transfers by ordinary gift. So if grandpa leaves it to you in his will, it can be transfered across state lines, but he can't give it to you across state lines while he's still alive. I think the statute quoted makes that distinction pretty clear.

 

[PhysicsGuy]

I disagree. A bequest is a gift by operation of a will. A gift from a living relative would just be a regular gift, and the statutes you quoted explicitly ban interstate transfers by ordinary gift. So if grandpa leaves it to you in his will, it can be transfered across state lines, but he can't give it to you across state lines while he's still alive. I think the statute quoted makes that distinction pretty clear.

you're correct, I had my definition of bequeathing off in my mind. I was thinking of something different. (living trust/will)


Anyways, a living relative can give you a firearm from out of state through legal means using a license holder. (and following local laws)

 

[CEF1959]

Anyways, a living relative can give you a firearm from out of state through legal means using a license holder. (and following local laws)

Good point. I should have been clearer. Going through an FFL works for gifts.

 

[Bark]

What if the person you want to buy from is in the military and "stationed" in your state (Oregon) but lives ..say in Washington. I have been told that this is legal but have not been able to verify it. I want to be darn sure it's OK before I make the purchase.

 

[CEF1959]

What if the person you want to buy from is in the military and "stationed" in your state (Oregon) but lives ..say in Washington. I have been told that this is legal but have not been able to verify it. I want to be darn sure it's OK before I make the purchase.

What do you mean he is "stationed" in Oregon but "lives" in another state? Where does he sleep at night?

The tricky thing is that there are all kinds of special rules for service personnel.

If you really want to make darn sure it's OK, going through a local FFL would be a sound $35 investment.

 

[Bark]

In my last PM I asked him questions about where he is and if he has Oregon ID, also offered to do a ffl transfer, he has not responded so I guess he is not interested......... Thanks for your input CEF.

 

[Artilleryman]

What do you mean he is "stationed" in Oregon but "lives" in another state? Where does he sleep at night?

The tricky thing is that there are all kinds of special rules for service personnel.

If you really want to make darn sure it's OK, going through a local FFL would be a sound $35 investment.

Military personnel typically retain legal residency in their home states, but are frequently stationed in other states. It is common to refer to your home of record as where you "live", even if you are stationed elsewhere.

 

[tionico]

If a military person has duty orders he is considered a resident of the place where he is stationed for the purpose of firearms transactions. IN other words, if he is stationed, and has written duty orders, in Oregon he is an Oregon resident for purpose of firearms laws. He sleeps in Oregon most nights. Therefore, he can sell a gun FtF to another Oregon resident.

How can I be certain of this? I was at Cabelas last week when a soldier from Texas was buying a handgun. One must prove residency in Washington to buy a handgun in Washington. (he was getting an FNH pistol... nice work!!) Since his driving license is from Texas, he had to go back and get a copy of his duty orders to Ft. Lewis to prove residency. Once he did that, the sale could proceed.

Now, I think THAT is nuts... anyone IN the military should be able to purchase any firearm anywhere in the nation, or overseas even, and own it, bring it back to his original state of residence (where his family live, most cases). WHY cannot a man charged with the defense of this nation not purchase a firearm at will? THIS is insane!!!