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FFL just told me private pty sell to pri pty not illegal across st lines

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Denwhit, Feb 9, 2013.

  1. Denwhit

    Denwhit Salem, Or Active Member

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    Across state lines. If that is not the truth, Who is breaking the law? The buyer, or the seller? Talking about a handgun here not a rifle. Why can't private individuals deal with each other with private property Regardless of their state of residence? I'd like to know the Oregon law number so I can research this if anyone has it.
    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    Back in the day (before the relative federal law was passed) it was up to the states to pass laws on interstate firearms sales. Back then Oregon had passed a law stating that it was okay to sell long arms (shotguns/rifles) to residents of neighboring states (no handgun sales without ffl). However federal statutes were passed that governed interstate movement of firearms covered in Title 27 S167; 178.29 and S167; 178.30, thus prohibiting any sale/transfer of firearms across state lines through private sales.

    Here is the text of those codes:


    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2002-title27-vol1/pdf/CFR-2002-title27-vol1-sec178-31.pdf
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. Keane

    Keane Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    That is not the truth. Private party to private party, BOTH are breaking the law. Doesn't matter if it is a rifle or a handgun.

    This is FEDERAL law. see here: ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons At the bottom of every question is the specific laws in question.
     
  4. Browning55

    Browning55 Seattle-Everett Area Active Member

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    Definitely do NOT do it. Above citations are correct. It's a felony and will render you permanently inelligible to own any type of firearm. Get that FFL clued in so he doesn't misinform anyone else.
     
    Nwcid and (deleted member) like this.
  5. James 61

    James 61 Clark Co Washington Member

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    Unfortunately not all FFLs know the law. A couple of years ago I went into a new gun store to check out their prices and selection. They had what was clearly an AR-15 on the wall but it had a sign saying it was an M16A2. Now I know the laws here and try to stay current on changes and I knew there hadn't been a change. Anyways I played dumb and started to ask questions and to make a long and boring story short the guy behind the counter didn't have a clue about the difference between an AR-15 and M-16 and the legality of owning a class 3 firearm in WA state.
     
    Nwcid and (deleted member) like this.
  6. chariot13

    chariot13 Near Eugene/Springfield Well-Known Member

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    Well not if its your firearm and a family member was just borrowing it temporarly. Many people leave their firearms with their parents to safeguard while they safeguard our country overseas or are stationed at commiefornia for a bit.
     
  7. Denwhit

    Denwhit Salem, Or Active Member

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    Okay, good stuff to know. I've sold a gun on one of the auction sites to a guy in another state. After the auction, he stated he will be in my state and town soon and could I just hand over the gun. Now I know the answer.
    Thanks to everyone.
     
  8. padd54

    padd54 Central Oregon/Cascades Active Member

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    Have him meet you at an FFL, this doesn't smell right to me. Good luck and be careful.
     
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  9. Norm0931

    Norm0931 Hillsboro, OR Sgt. Sheep Silver Vendor 2016 Volunteer

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    He's not a resident of your state and so it would still be interstate commerce. Have him meet you at an FFL and have them complete the transaction. I was under the impression it had to be an FFL in the BUYER's state though.

    Straight from the ATF. DO NOT COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION IN YOUR TOWN! It needs to be an FFL in HIS state of residence.
     
    mjbskwim and (deleted member) like this.
  10. Keane

    Keane Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    Just cause it happens doesn't make it illegal... I'd definitely like to see the exception to the GCA rules that you're aware of. Any transfers between people of different states must go through an FFL, family or not.
     
  11. chariot13

    chariot13 Near Eugene/Springfield Well-Known Member

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    You have it right just cause it happens doesnt make it illegal. The spirit of the law is much stronger and righteous than any letter of the law has ever been, right down to the T even when that T follows an A & precedes an F. ;)
     
  12. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Not quite. The answer you gave is NOT to the question asked.

    Q: May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?
    A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

    So the question is obtaining a firearm from out of state. This says you can legally have it shipped but it has to go to an FFL for transfer.



    The question the #10 asked was "if a buyer was from out of state and met him could he just give the gun to the buyer. The answer is no, but he CAN legally transfer it at ANY FFL (as long as it is a long gun).

    Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?
    A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

    Here is the link to all of these again, ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons
     
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  13. Keane

    Keane Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    Yep, I misstyped :/

    The way the law is enforced and written makes it illegal. Break the law at your own peril.
     
  14. Denwhit

    Denwhit Salem, Or Active Member

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    The auction winner has provided a FFL licensee back home in his home state and I'll ship it from a FFL here. I think it's legal for a private person (non FFL) to ship a handgun to a FFL in another state but UPS and FEDEX really sock it to you. With $1400 insurance, was going to be over $100 to ship 800 miles! Most gun shops have paperwork filed with USPS and they can ship handguns for $30-40 through USPS. I'll use one and pay his fee. Still much cheaper than shipping myself.
    Thanks for all the input. Very interesting reading.
     
  15. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    Thank heavens you listened to the advice and are doing it legally. I can see someone in a law enforcement agency trying to get people to break the law...or some mayor's office, maybe...not that Bloomy would ever do that....
     
  16. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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  17. Denwhit

    Denwhit Salem, Or Active Member

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    I was very close to breaking the forum's rules with my posting. I thought the members would be interested in hearing how a gun shop owner gave me the wrong advice on shipping a handgun. I apologize to all and will try harder to follow the forum rules and of course, the law.
     
  18. OEDub

    OEDub SW OR Coast Active Member

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    Just out of curiosity...which local FFL was it? I'd be very interested to find out.
     
  19. Denwhit

    Denwhit Salem, Or Active Member

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    I'll PM that info. to you. He was nice enough about answering my question but sure wrong. I'm so glad I found out before acting on it. I just received my CHL and I would sure hate to screw up my life over ignorance of the law. I have another question but I'm kind of worried about asking it on here. I read the forum rules that "bubblegumin" about the law is prohibited. Maybe I'll PM one of you knowledgeable guys.
     
  20. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Platinum Supporter Silver Supporter

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    Private is private just like carrying concealed is carrying concealed.