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Feds attack Tannerite!

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by erudne, Aug 6, 2013.

  1. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    Popular gun range target blamed for forest fires, called potential bomb source


    Tannerite binary exploding targets are safe when used properly, according to the product's inventor and company CEO. (Tannerite.com)

    Firefighters work to control a wildfire north of Ellensburg, Wash., last year that authorities say was ignited by an exploding target. (AP Photo/Daily Record/Brian Myrick) (Brian Myrick)
    Exploding targets are popular at gun ranges, but not with federal law enforcement authorities who say the unregulated product not only has caused devastating forest fires but can also be a cheap source of bomb-making materials for extremists.

    Selling for as little as $5 and packaged under names such as Shockwave, Sureshot, White Lightning, Zombie Boom, Blue Thunder and the original brand, Tannerite, the targets, or ETs, include an oxidizer -- usually ammonium nitrate, and a fuel, typically aluminum flakes. The compounds are sold separated and remain inert until they are mixed. Once made volatile, they create an explosion that the U.S. Forest Service says can ignite vegetation.

    "In the past year alone, at least 16 wildfires on national forests have been associated with exploding targets, causing millions of dollars in suppression costs while threatening the safety and well-being of surrounding communities," said U.S. Forest Service Chief Tom Tidwell.

    An order issued Monday by the agency bans the targets in forests and grasslands in Colorado, Wyoming, Kansas, Nebraska and South Dakota. Violators could face a fine of up to $5,000 and be sent prison for up to six months. But perhaps just as worrisome as the potential for starting fires is the targets' potential for yielding bomb-making ingredients.

    “…the FBI has identified multiple incidents where criminals and extremists have explored the possibility of employing the binary explosive mixture obtained from ETs as a means to commit criminal and terrorist acts,” stated a report released earlier this year by the FBI’s Terrorist Explosive Device Analytical Center.




    “The FBI considers its review of multiple incidents involving ETs is sufficient to make high confidence judgments about the potential risk posed by ETs in the United States.”

    - FBI report released earlier this year


    Because the active ingredients of the products, technically called binary exploding targets, come in pre-measured, separate jars, they are not classified as an explosive by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and can be sold without restriction. Once mixed, someone must have a federal explosives permit to transport them, but sportsmen generally mix them onsite before using them as targets.

    The FBI report went on to state that the product “can be combined with other materials to manufacture explosives for use in improvised explosive devices [IEDs].” Although IEDs have been used to kill troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, the report focused on the potential danger exploding targets pose in the U.S.

    “The FBI considers its review of multiple incidents involving ETs is sufficient to make high confidence judgments about the potential risk posed by ETs in the United States,” the report stated.

    Military officials told FoxNews.com it is unlikely extremists in Afghanistan use these products for IEDs.

    “Our Technical Support Center has found no reports of IEDs specifically identifying "Tannerite" in Iraq or Afghanistan,” according to Gideon Rogers, spokesman for the Naval Surface Warfare Center.

    However, a civilian police bomb technician contractor who was responsible for evaluating and reassembling IEDs from Afghanistan in 2007 tells FoxNews.com he came across a bottle of Tannerite in a box of IED components from the war zone.

    "I was confused as to why it was in a box with IED components and how people got hold of it to use against our troops," said the contractor, who declined to be identified because of the classified nature of the project he was involved in. "I know what I saw because I took the Tannerite out of the box myself."

    Rogers acknowledged that tens of thousands of IEDs have been detonated in the two war zones over the last decade, and that only about 3 percent of the reports filed on them identify particular substances. The rest simply list “unknown bulk explosives.”

    Daniel Tanner, inventor and CEO of Tannerite, vehemently denied the possibility of his product being used for enemy IEDs

    "If this is the case, it is the first I have heard of it," Tanner said, questioning the accuracy of the actual discovery. “There are so many people who copy our product who knows what he saw.”

    Tanner’s product is so well-known that the company name is often used to describe imitators’ products. He tells FoxNews.com he has been fighting constant court battles for patent infringement and advocating his product’s safety for years.

    Tanner said when used in the recommended quantity of 8 ounces, Tannerite is not dangerous and merely emits a flash and a puff of vapor, signaling to the shooter that the target was struck. Tanner has even stood near a target as it was hit to demonstrate the safety of his product.

    But exploding targets are not always used in recommended quantities. Dozens of YouTube videos show shooters hitting washing machines and even cars packed with as much as 50 pounds of the material, causing violent explosions that send shrapnel hurtling outward.

    This explosive potential has already drawn some in the U.S. to use it for criminal or domestic terrorist purposes. The FBI report cites cases such as a Missouri man who threatened to blow himself up in his mayor’s driveway using an IED containing 20 pounds of material harvested from exploding targets in December 2011.

    In 2007, in preparation for a standoff with federal officials pending an arrest on outstanding charges, individuals associated with an alleged militia group in New Hampshire hung containers of exploding targets around the perimeter of their property, which could be detonated via impact from a high-caliber rifle. Two .50 caliber rifles, numerous other firearms, and 30 pipe bombs were discovered in the compound.

    In the wake of the Boston Marathon bombing, the late Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., proposed the Explosive Materials Background Check to address the sale of black and smokeless gunpowder.

    Currently, an individual can purchase up to 50 pounds of black powder without a background check and unlimited quantities of smokeless and black powder substitutes, which binary targets essentially become after being mixed.

    Supporters of binary exploding targets contend Lautenberg’s proposal specifically targets them.

    “It’s no big deal. I don’t think it needs to be regulated,” said Pete McConnell, manager of the Stuckenhoff Shooters Complex in Casper, Wyo. “All it does is make a pop.”

    But while Austin Benning, manager of the Sharpshooters Indoor Shooting Range and Gun Store in Corpus Christi, Texas, enjoys shooting at binary exploding targets, he said he is not averse to regulation.

    “It’s awesome to take on the range, but there are definitely ways to make it unsafe,” said Benning. “When it comes to [exploding targets], I don’t think the background check and regulation by ATF is a bad idea.”

    BUY SOME NOW!

    ]Popular gun range target blamed for forest fires, called potential bomb source | Fox News[/url]
     
  2. Blaylocke

    Blaylocke Lewis County Active Member

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    I don't know. I was always satisfied shooting paper and pop cans.
     
  3. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    I'll have to get some of that and store it...Wonder how long it will last. Can that stuff be set off with a 22??
     
  4. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    No, but there are 22 versions of the stuff that look like red bottle caps (small). Tannerite needs something traveling at a higher rate of impact speed than a 22lr or a pistol round; 2000+ feet per second or higher if I remember correctly. Even 5.7 rounds have trouble.
     
  5. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    Of course it is, just ask the manufacturer or the one selling it. It's kind of a moot point to even use this as a statement of the products' safety.
     
  6. drew

    drew OR Well-Known Member

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    That's correct from what I know.
    I talked to a guy who was making targets to compete with Tannerite. He said the 22lr targets are the worst thing he he had for causing fire. Tannerite requires high velocity and isn't a fire hazard. The vendor I talked to said neither Tannerite nor his high velocity offering were a fire hazzard.

    http://www.tannerite.com/category/featured/
     
  7. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    It is Red Jacket's fault.
     
    orygun and (deleted member) like this.
  8. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    They are using way more than just Tannerite.
     
  9. Sgt Nambu

    Sgt Nambu Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Been comin' down road!
     
  10. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    In the last 30 years I've seen just about every form of fun get outlawed in the name of safety.

    Pretty soon spraying your dog with a garden hose will be punishable with a $5k fine or a year in jail.
     
  11. Swedish K

    Swedish K SW Washington Moderator Staff Member

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    Yet the Tannerite patent has been granted an extension fairly recently. Go figure...
     
  12. Ironbar

    Ironbar Tigard, OR Well-Known Member

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    Seriously, is anyone surprised about this?
     
  13. Caveman Jim

    Caveman Jim West of Oly Springer Slayer 2016 Volunteer

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    Damn, busted again!!!!! When will it end???
     
  14. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner You'll Never Know Well-Known Member

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    So, will gasoline and propane be next! :huh:
     
  15. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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    There are ways to misuse anything. Or DIY explosives.... I personally think it's a shame another local business is under attack by the F'N nanny state.

    Even if it's not your cup of Joe ("Paper and pop cans"), We as a community shouldn't verbally support the destruction of freedom, entertainment, production or capitalism.

    So many want "That (Thing I don't prefer) Outlawed", Gee why is unemployment so high again and GDP falling?

    My worthless .02

    Good luck to you Daniel Tanner, I support you. :flag:
     
    orygun, bcdon, Dunerunner and 5 others like this.
  16. Gunwheeler

    Gunwheeler Somewhere in De Nile Active Member

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    Exploding targets prohibited on National Forests in Oregon and Washington

    Release Date: Jul 9, 2013

    Beginning July 9, 2013, visitors to national forests in Oregon and Washington are prohibited from possessing, discharging, or using exploding targets.

    Exploding targets are a documented cause of wildfires, and have been associated with at least five wildfires on National Forest System lands since 2012, resulting in more than 15,600 acres burned and approximately $30 million in suppression costs.

    “Exploding targets are an increasing concern on National Forests in this Region due to their potential to harm the public and for the high temperatures—and often flames—generated when they explode,” said Assistant Special Agent in Charge Michael Loudermilk.

    Exploding targets generally consist of two or more separate chemical components, that, when mixed, become an explosive designed to produce a visual and audible display intended for use as a target for firearms practice. These targets typically consist of a fuel and an oxidizer, such as ammonium nitrate and aluminum, which can be purchased legally online and at retail stores. They explode forcefully and with enough force to scatter burning material.

    The prohibition of exploding targets on National Forest System lands is not intended to deter or adversely affect the sport of target shooting. The prohibition is directed at concerns over the potential for fire ignition associated with the use of exploding targets on public lands. The Forest Service fully recognizes hunting and safe target shooting as a valid use of National Forest System lands.

    The closure order was signed by Deputy Regional Forester Maureen Hyzer and is being implemented to protect public health and safety. The closure order expires June 20, 2015, or until rescinded. Any violation of this prohibition is punishable as a Class B misdemeanor by a fine of not more than $5,000 for individuals and $10,000 for organizations or by imprisonment for not more than six months, or both.

    This closure order can be found on file at the Pacific Northwest Region (USFS), 333 SW First Ave., Portland OR 97208. For information about this order, please contact Assistant Special Agent in Charge Michael Loudermilk at (360) 891-5278.
     
  17. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    Still lots of Tannerite being sold on Ebay which I find amusing. Ebay - you know, the company that pull ads for squirt guns that look too real.
     
  18. ScottyB

    ScottyB Whatcom Member

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    No, this is a fair statement. Used properly it is safe. My Ruger, used properly is perfectly safe. My automobile, used properly is perfectly safe. If you make the decision to use something in a way that it was not meant to be used then bad things will happen. The boardwalk driver is proof of that. Do we need background checks and waiting periods on car purchases now?
     
  19. Blaylocke

    Blaylocke Lewis County Active Member

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    Shooting a gas can is safe, as long as you are in an area with noncombustible material. However, shooting an exploding target in the woods is like playing with fire, pun intended.
     
  20. ScottyB

    ScottyB Whatcom Member

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    Wow, that's where you went with that? How is shooting a gas can the PROPER use of the gun or the gas can? Shooting Tannerite in PROPERLY mixed amounts is safe. My point is that when you chose to stray from proper use you can make anything unsafe. If you want to use 10 lbs of Tannerite instead of 8 ozs you may start a fire. If you want to drive your car on the boardwalk instead of the road you may hurt people. Neither one is an example of proper use.