Don't tell me why you didn't vote, explain it to a vet

[Dave Workman]

I'd originally meant to post to this thread as soon as it was first started,.....

(snip)


Our Veterans have helped to guarantee our freedom to choose whether or not we vote. I accept this priceless gift with sincere thanks, and will exercise this right and vote with eternal gratitude. Others (Veterans and civilians alike) might choose to not vote, and I am not fit to judge their choice or motivation. I'm just grateful that others have sacrificed so much so that I may speak, even if it comes out as a raspy whisper lost in a whirlwind.

WOW!!!!!

Be sure to post this at the bottom of my column in the reader comments section!

Very apparent a lot of thought went into this.

 

[sandman1212]

I'd originally meant to post to this thread as soon as it was first started, but felt that any 'Thanks for your service, Vets' thing I'd add would just seem like empty platitudes from some random civilian who admittedly can't really comprehend what it is to have served in the armed forces. And maybe it'll still come across as just that. But the truth remains that I appreciate what our people in uniform have done and continue to do for those of us who have never served. As this thread has grown, I feel more compelled than ever to add to the discussion. I can't express my gratitude sufficiently with mere words, and this will probably ramble all over the map. But having friends and family members who've given so much of themselves to protect us and our rights... well, emotion can overtake coherency. So maybe you'll bear with me on what is my 100th post here on the forum... Anyway, THANK YOU to all of you who've served. We should all honor our Veterans every day... so here goes my ramble...
* * * * * * *
Few subjects inspire feelings and opinions as intense as these: the two party lock on the American political system; the moral underpinnings of the wars we fight; and the worth of an individual vote. It's good that we can discuss and even heatedly argue our positions. And whether or not we agree with the ethical judgements of our elected leaders, on any particular subject, we are the only ones who can make a difference. We, the people...

In a democracy that becomes ever more polarized and bludgeoned by 24/7 media that is ever more polarizing, our rights to organize with like-minded people and VOTE our own conscience remain as our most powerful weapons against tyranny in all its forms and the destruction of our freedoms. And for these most powerful weapons, we owe our Veterans boundless gratitude.

The corollary being that we owe our Vets as much gratitude for granting us the luxury of choosing to NOT vote... but I myself will choose to vote in every election, referendum, plebiscite, whatever. I know that there can never be a 100% guarantee that my vote will even be counted (especially with the advent of easily hackable electronic machines that leave zero paper trail), and often the final tally will be contrary to my wishes. But just as I choose to exercise my 2A rights by owning and carrying firearms, I will choose to exercise my right to vote.

I reckon that on a wide range of issues, I'm more 'liberal' than some people and more 'conservative' than others-- just like every human with free will and a central nervous system. Both of those terms (lib and con) and all of their permutations have greatly morphed in meaning over the last dozen decades. Definitions change, opinions change, understandings change. Any word can seemingly be a badge of honor one day and a filthy pejorative the next.

Wars have been instigated or avoided, won or lost, become protracted, been ended or avoided altogether by bullets and bombs and words. To vote is to speak my own word, even if I can't ever be 100% certain it'll be counted. If I don't vote, I can be certain that no one will hear my voice. Political systems and empires rise and fall, but the opinion of an individual stands free from any external scaffolding, even if that opinion is never heard. In our system, voting can sometimes feel like shouting down an abandoned well. And I'd rather shout down that well than stare silently into the abyss...

Our Veterans have helped to guarantee our freedom to choose whether or not we vote. I accept this priceless gift with sincere thanks, and will exercise this right and vote with eternal gratitude. Others (Veterans and civilians alike) might choose to not vote, and I am not fit to judge their choice or motivation. I'm just grateful that others have sacrificed so much so that I may speak, even if it comes out as a raspy whisper lost in a whirlwind.

Very nicely written!

 

[8ball]

Where I grew up voting is compulsory, and 95%+ of citizens vote. Don't vote, and you get fined. You have to make an effort to keep off the electoral roll, and you also get fined for that.

Does it make a difference in the political system? Not at all - two party dominated, mostly socialist, high taxes, and people happily voted away their gun rights multiple times. ****, they also voted to keep the Queen as head of state, and voted against freedom of religion.

Lots of uninformed voters make for bad politics. All said, the option to not vote is a good democratic choice.

 

[bugeye]

what do constitutional violations have to do with foreign wars? there's nothing in the Constitution that prohibits our government from laying waste to 3rd world muslim cesspools.

same bubblegums, different problems.

The constitutional violation is the same one for Korea, Viet Nam, Afganistan and Iraq (and some others) congress is the only constitutional group that can declare war, and they did not do so for any of our conflicts since WW2.

It seems that our government has little respect for the constitution when the executive branch is chomping at the bit for a little fun war. There were no WMD, and Iraq was no threat to us, get over it allready, sheesh.

 

[8ball]

The constitutional violation is the same one for Korea, Viet Nam, Afganistan and Iraq (and some others) congress is the only constitutional group that can declare war, and they did not do so for any of our conflicts since WW2.

Not true. The Gulf War, Afghanistan and Iraq were authorized by resolutions passed in Congress. You could also argue the Gulf of Tonkin resolution authorized the Vietnam War. Note that the Constitution doesn't spell out how Congress should declare war.

Declaration of war by the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[The B]

The constitutional violation is the same one for Korea, Viet Nam, Afganistan and Iraq (and some others) congress is the only constitutional group that can declare war, and they did not do so for any of our conflicts since WW2.

It seems that our government has little respect for the constitution when the executive branch is chomping at the bit for a little fun war. There were no WMD, and Iraq was no threat to us, get over it allready, sheesh.

Not true. The Gulf War, Afghanistan and Iraq were authorized by resolutions passed in Congress. You could also argue the Gulf of Tonkin resolution authorized the Vietnam War. Note that the Constitution doesn't spell out how Congress should declare war.

Declaration of war by the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

indeed... i was typing this point, when i looked at the next post.

congress hasn't "declared war" in any of these military actions because of the terrible stigma attached to war. the last time war was officially declared, 60-70 million people died. it sort of changed how we define "war." right or wrong.

either way, war resolutions and budgets have all been passed by congress. does a failure to call it "war" make it unconstitutional?

 

[bugeye]

Not true. The Gulf War, Afghanistan and Iraq were authorized by resolutions passed in Congress. You could also argue the Gulf of Tonkin resolution authorized the Vietnam War. Note that the Constitution doesn't spell out how Congress should declare war.

Declaration of war by the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So you are saying that congressional resolutions are the same as declaring war? This just isn't so! We have an established means of declaring war in congress, passing a resolution is not even close.

The joint resolution to authorize the use of military force in Iraq limited the use of power to enforcing previous UN resolutions and sanctions. Since none of these UN edicts called for regime change, as soon as Bush called for the surrender of Saddam and his Sons he went beyond the terms of the resolution.

The Constitution grants congress, and congress alone, the power to declare war, Ron Paul raises this point whenever he is asked about our two current wars (oops police actions or whatever the heck they are calling them these days). The framers wanted something as serious as declaring war to be subject to a public debate and that is why they wisely gave this power to congress.

 

[The B]

So you are saying that congressional resolutions are the same as declaring war? This just isn't so! We have an established means of declaring war in congress, passing a resolution is not even close.

The joint resolution to authorize the use of military force in Iraq limited the use of power to enforcing previous UN resolutions and sanctions. Since none of these UN edicts called for regime change, as soon as Bush called for the surrender of Saddam and his Sons he went beyond the terms of the resolution.

The Constitution grants congress, and congress alone, the power to declare war, Ron Paul raises this point whenever he is asked about our two current wars (oops police actions or whatever the heck they are calling them these days). The framers wanted something as serious as declaring war to be subject to a public debate and that is why they wisely gave this power to congress.

how does authorizing money and authority for military actions, aside from declared wars, violate the Constitution? what clause is violated, and how?