"Don't buy China" reality check

[MannyGlocks]

CD,

Ya lost me man...?

Blood for ink, huh...?

 

[Oregonhunter5]

I love buying American made stuff. Until the manufacture puts a 40% mark up cause it's made in America.....

 

[BlindedByScience]

BBS,

Avoid taking quotes from big box hardware/lumber stores. I'll avoid naming names but you can easily guess who I refer to...

I made that mistake once.

I took 4 quotes to have my house painted and the big box folks wanted, get this 3 times as much as the lowest bid and would do no brush painting, all spray.

No way as some of my exterior 'has' to be brushed.

Oh, and they would've used a lower quality paint to boot...

Copy that. No 'big box' stores; we're using local (Battle Ground) folks, family owned companies, been really happy with the people and materials they suggested so far. They seem to be very appreciative of the business, and we're glad to support local guys. Prices have been very competitive as well; can't see a downside here.

 

[P7M13]

I use blood for ink so I'm good.

CD,
Ya lost me man...?
Blood for ink, huh...?

Bat Blood. Raised near Wuhan.

 

[made in china]

I often get into "don't buy Chinese" discussions with people. Quite often, I find that most people are unaware of how dangerous China is. They only see it as an American consumer as "beneficial" even when quality is poor, it's excusable due to low price.

Others have brought up good counterpoints about other ways Chinese products and American business people are hurting the American way of life, so I'll bring up something very few people experience: living in China. I used to live in China from 2001. Moved back to USA in 2007. However, I met my wife there and we own an apartment in Shanghai to this day. Just stayed in China for a few months in end of 2019 (prior to virus outbreak).
What people don't realize is how bad China has become internally. When I began living there, Jiang Zhimin was on his way out and Hu Jintao was the new president. My internet worked fine, I could freely buy a mobile phone, I could use cash to buy things, I only needed to do the most basic of paperwork when getting an apartment. Things looked "OK" to me at that time. However, I did feel very bad about my job, which was to basically move US manufacturing to China and start it up and support it (semiconductor manufacturing). There's long stories about that too, but...

Fast forward to Xi Jinping, a seriously insecure authoritarian who made himself president for life. Now, there are CCTV everywhere, looking at every corner of anywhere you could walk. My aunt-in-law received a "jaywalking" ticket by facial recognition AI bots in Shanghai. Mailed to her home. From FACIAL RECOGNITION. Now, I can not buy a phone in China unless I register it, and me not being a citizen makes that more difficult. Every hotel or place we stay at takes a picture of my wife and I and our passports (but not our son!) And even getting in to our apartment there are AI CCTV at the gates, so I am not allowed to stay in my own apartment unless I get permission. Furthermore, many retailers don't accept cash (instead preferring smartphone-based EFT), and Taxi's prefer app-based ride hailing, so you must have a smartphone for EFT and taxis, and if you make the gov't mad they can disable your smartphone which in turns cuts you off from your money and some mobility. And my internet doesn't work. I can't access english web searches, I was diagnosed with a medical problem while in China and I couldn't even research it until I came home.

It is truly a dystopian and authoritarian place and my wife and I will be divesting from China after her parents pass. She will be getting American citizenship and writing off her home country. Even with everything going on in USA, we have a great country and need to cherish it and be aware of what the giant dragon is doing to it's own people, because, could it happen here?

Oh, and the racism in China recently is off the charts!

We do not buy Chinese made if we can help it.

Be aware, when buying Chinese made stuff, it is another "dollar to the giant" and if we ever have issues with China (we do) we only have ourselves (collectively) to blame for empowering them, They couldn't have gained their strength without our greed.

 

[Hueco]

I'm making the decision to actively buy American made if I can find it for my new purchases. If I can't, I look for stuff made in countries friendly to us. Made in China is last-resort stuff for me now. I don't want any of my money going to support the CCP, and will spend more for things made here, or at least in other countries like Malaysia or Korea, vs China.

I recently had a made in China fishing rod break. I could've replaced it for $50 with another chinese made item, but I bit the bullet and bought a G Loomis rod made in Woodland, Washington. My work flashlight died recently, and it was a pain to find something local on a store shelf not made in China. Best I could do was "Assembled in the US from foreign and US made parts"

Our 7+ year old Kureig coffee maker just went tits up, and unfortunately there's not an American made alternative we could find. Kureig is based in Vermont, but their stuff is made in China. Bunn still makes their products in the US, but they don't have a k-cup compatable machine I could find.

My printer is a Korean made Samsung. I think they're also making the toner there, but I don't have a box handy to verify.

Buy American when you can. Support Americans. Defund China!

Trust me on this one: Get a hand grinder (I've got this one: Hiku- The Premium Hand Coffee Grinder, note, I backed a Kickstarter a long while ago - if you know of an American made one, let me know. KS is intellectually in a tough spot for me - it's where super small ventures go to launch products...but many of those products wind up manufactured in China. Hopefully that will change) and a Chemex (Eight Cup Classic Series Coffeemaker). Take 15 to 20 minutes and savor the experience. It's called a coffee break after all.

 

[made in china]

My work flashlight died recently, and it was a pain to find something local on a store shelf not made in China. Best I could do was "Assembled in the US from foreign and US made parts"

Our 7+ year old Kureig coffee maker just went tits up, and unfortunately there's not an American made alternative we could find. Kureig is based in Vermont, but their stuff is made in China. Bunn still makes their products in the US, but they don't have a k-cup compatable machine I could find.

I use Maglite LED lights for my weapon lights, although I will occasionally buy a very well made Chinese flashlight (there are Chinese flashlight enthusiast companies that take these products seriously and make an excellent product) I insist on USA made for everything relating to my firearms, well except for my Glock. I might very well be one of very few people who utilize Maglite as weapon light!
I manufacture LED lighting in the USA, and we try very hard to source everything from outside of China. PCB made in USA, driver IC Taiwan, white LEDs from Samsung Korea, final assembly in Oregon or Washington state. Fortunately I have customers that need USA made, the whole "Assembled in USA of global and domestic" is fine by me, as long as "assembly" doesn't mean "put into the box with batteries".

I recently bought a Technivorm Moccamaster for about $300 from a local kitchen supply place (I also prefer brick and mortar, albeit admittedly usually more expensive). Handmade in Netherlands. If you look at it's design and construction, you'll see it's not all that expensive for what you get. Coffee is good as a dripper gets. Pair with the aforementioned manual grinder and you are good to go. Technivorm does make one-cup drip machine also. Hard to beat a K machine!

 

[oneharmonic]

Until your printer catches on fire in a few weeks....

Did the device you used to type this reply catch on fire? Where was it and all its components made?

 

[American123]

When the US manufactures start making $400 1x8 variable scopes that are either FFP or SFP depending on preference I'll happily buy!

I see this as a problem from two directions #1 the US should be making more on tariffs so US based industry can better compete.

#2 I wonder how much mark-up on products made here contribute to price increase beyond just labor, I understand working for pennies on the dollar has an effect, but I wonder how much mark-up could be cut, still make a strong profit, and offer at a lower price.

 

[made in china]

#2 I wonder how much mark-up on products made here contribute to price increase beyond just labor, I understand working for pennies on the dollar has an effect, but I wonder how much mark-up could be cut, still make a strong profit, and offer at a lower price.

My favorite story, somewhat in line with #2, I remember about 7-9 years ago, I had to buy tools for my newly hired co-workers tool boxes. I specifically remember being at Lowe's, buying Vise-Grips. They even had the little "Made in USA" logo on them. $14.99 each. Had to go back a week later, to buy the same stuff. I now saw those Vise-Grips on "clearance" for $7.99, and the exact version of them below for $14.99. The "clearance" Vise-Grips for $7.99 were made in USA, the identical ones for $14.99 didn't have the "made in USA" logo on them, they were, in fact, made in China now. They looked identical.
I found it interesting that Lowe's had both out right next to each other.
I would also bet, that at $7.99, they were not losing money on them yet, despite being made in USA. made me realize the profit margin was decent from USA manufacturing, but probably much, much better when made in China.
Doesn't matter to companies that are owned by investors.

 

[The Heretic]

Many manufacturers have a line of products that are made in the USA, and a line made in China. The lower end lower profit margin stuff made in China, the higher end/margin stuff made in the USA. Tools like drill presses, saws, etc. - this is very much true.

Then there are the manufacturers that have plants in China where they run the plant there and have their own management and QA/QC there. Stuff like Apple computers and phones (which are generally higher quality than their competitors) which they can't afford to have quality problems with them.

Then there is the issue of returns and warranties and tech support - good luck returning a cheap Chinese lawn mower to Walmart or something like that. There is a lot of built-in cost to warranty returns.

Whether I buy something made in China or not depends on the product - e.g., I stopped buying Merrell boots and shoes. They are now made in China and no longer made by Merrell (it was bought out by Red Wing IIRC) - their waterproof footwear is no longer waterproof and often falls apart. I now buy Keen footwear, all of which is made in the USA, most of it here in Oregon.

 

[bolus]

Did the device you used to type this reply catch on fire? Where was it and all its components made?

not yet Though the computer case that I''m currently using has multiple dead panels like the power button. I literally have it jump started (2 wires to the motherboard for the power button and I touch the bare wires together to turn it on) . Either do that or replace it and have it short out 3 months from now.

Just overall frustrated by the lack of quality in all products anymore. I'm going to blame China for it because I want to

Just off the top of my head
- refrigerator panel out within a year, replaced it off ebay. replacement factory panel now shorting out 2 months later
- Refrigerator door wiring rusted and broken in 6 months, stripped out the wires and replaced with heavier gauge and soldered them up myself.
- vacuum cleaner broken in 6 months, bought a Miele to replace but they didnt mention that they make the version I bought in China now, not Germany. waiting for it to break.
- Clothes washer only washes on one setting now, all of the rest of the panel out within 9 months
- Clothes drier out at 8 months and had to replace
- 10 computer keyboards dead in 2 years. Now I just replace with cheep crap one since even the expensive ones die at the same time
- How many phone chargers have I been through in 1 year? 10? 20?
- Immersion cooker, dead in 6 months,
- Bought very expensive roof solar panels, with an inverter specifically from a company in Germany. Inverter wasnt made in Germany, it was made in China, though they dont mention it. It took 3 years to get it so it would not throw errors on a daily basis (you have to restart it every time which cant be done remotely). I'll pay that piece of bubble gum off in 40 years at this rate. The AMERICAN MADE panels are doing fine though.

I just dont buy stuff anymore. I need several larger items but have decided just to go without since I cant find anything not made in china and I dont want to buy them every 6 months. Not buying another phone. just ordered parts to fix mine through ifixit.

When the appliances go I might go with some commercial ones for restaurants instead.

The only products I would consider good quality that I've bought in the last decade were firearms. Coincidentally, NOT MADE IN CHINA

/rant

 

[mkwerx]

Trust me on this one: Get a hand grinder (I've got this one: Hiku- The Premium Hand Coffee Grinder, note, I backed a Kickstarter a long while ago - if you know of an American made one, let me know. KS is intellectually in a tough spot for me - it's where super small ventures go to launch products...but many of those products wind up manufactured in China. Hopefully that will change) and a Chemex (Eight Cup Classic Series Coffeemaker). Take 15 to 20 minutes and savor the experience. It's called a coffee break after all.

Got used to the one cup brewer for the last 8 years. Used to brew in a Mr. Coffee drip pot. Still keep regular coffee around for camp use, or when we run out of coffee pods. I need my first cup in the morning before I function. I don't miss brewing a pot of coffee and having it wasted, I get frustrated enough w/ my wife because we're constantly buying creamer, and I constantly find 3/4 full cups she's made and forgotten about I stopped trying ti win that battle long ago.

I might some day get a grinder and do the really good stuff though. This year is going to be a lot of big changes for us. MIL decided to move to Texas with us, so we're getting her house all prepped, had a couple potential buyers come look at it. She should be deciding soon which offer to take, and we'll get to looking at places down there. Maybe it'll be the year of the coffee change too

 

[Nosferatu]

My favorite story, somewhat in line with #2, I remember about 7-9 years ago, I had to buy tools for my newly hired co-workers tool boxes. I specifically remember being at Lowe's, buying Channelocks. They even had the little "Made in USA" logo on them. $14.99 each. Had to go back a week later, to buy the same stuff. I now saw those Channelocks on "clearance" for $7.99, and the exact version of them below for $14.99. The "clearance" Channelocks for $7.99 were made in USA, the identical ones for $14.99 didn't have the "made in USA" logo on them, they were, in fact, made in China now. They looked identical.
I found it interesting that Lowe's had both out right next to each other.
I would also bet, that at $7.99, they were not losing money on them yet, despite being made in USA. made me realize the profit margin was decent from USA manufacturing, but probably much, much better when made in China.
Doesn't matter to companies that are owned by investors.

Were they Channellock branded pliers? The DeArment family, who has owned Channellock from the beginning through 3 or 4 generations, is vehemently pro-American manufacturing and forges all their pliers in PA. I have a feeling what you were looking at was a lookalike brand.

 

[gmerkt]

It is truly a dystopian and authoritarian place

Well, we used to call it Red China for a reason. It's no longer PC to do so. But it's still a Communist state. They've kept the authoritarian part of Communism, and adopted modified capitalist concepts and practices as selected. In aid of their goal of world domination. Which isn't a paranoid notion. Look how they are building little enclaves of power and influence all over the world. They will break us financially, then push us completely back to our own borders. I don't know what comes after that. Vassal satellite slave state furnishing raw materials?

Re. ink cartridges. I've been tempted a couple of times to buy reconditioned cartridges on ebay. Both times, didn't work out. First time, I got about 15 copies then the printer told me I was out of ink. I don't know how these work, but the printer knows how much ink is remaining in a cartridge. You get messages telling you how much. Maybe when the cartridge is finally and truly out of ink, the machine stores this information. Maybe there is something on the cartridge body that needs resetting so the printer "knows" it's full. I don't know.

Second time around, the vendor pulled a blatant bait and switch on me. The listing clearly stated I was to get a set of two ink cartridges, one for B&W, the other color. When the pkg. arrived, only a color cartridge was present. My receipt said I'd ordered only one. I went back and checked everything, sure enough I'd read it right. Anyway, I sent it back for refund. Now I will go back to my previous practice of buying original Canon cartridges (probably made in China) at Fred Meyer when they have them on sale.

 

[Hueco]

Got used to the one cup brewer for the last 8 years. Used to brew in a Mr. Coffee drip pot. Still keep regular coffee around for camp use, or when we run out of coffee pods. I need my first cup in the morning before I function. I don't miss brewing a pot of coffee and having it wasted, I get frustrated enough w/ my wife because we're constantly buying creamer, and I constantly find 3/4 full cups she's made and forgotten about I stopped trying ti win that battle long ago.

I might some day get a grinder and do the really good stuff though. This year is going to be a lot of big changes for us. MIL decided to move to Texas with us, so we're getting her house all prepped, had a couple potential buyers come look at it. She should be deciding soon which offer to take, and we'll get to looking at places down there. Maybe it'll be the year of the coffee change too

I'm still waiting on a kickstarter for a small batch coffee bean roaster. If it works well, it'll be a new level of coffee for me: storing green beans, roasting at home, grinding, and drinking all within a week. If you want to try something new, get some virgin coconut oil and add a tablespoon to your cup and then use an immersion blender to combine. That and a touch of honey gets you that creamier, sweeter cup for a bit cheaper than creamer (healthier? I dunno...maybe).

Your wife sounds like mine. She doesn't drink coffee anymore but I couldn't tell you how many cups of tea I've found sitting in the kitchen, full, bag still "steeping" except that the water is back to room temperature . When I make her London Fogs I make sure to hang around to make sure it doesn't go to waste .

 

[made in china]

Were they Channellock branded pliers? The DeArment family, who has owned Channellock from the beginning through 3 or 4 generations, is vehemently pro-American manufacturing and forges all their pliers in PA. I have a feeling what you were looking at was a lookalike brand.

You got me!
I meant Vise-Grips!
Vise-Grips are owned by Irwin and began being made in China. Brand-name mixup.

This Could be Your Last Chance to Buy USA-made Vise Grip Locking Pliers

We found a new listing for reasonably priced USA-made Vise Grip locking pliers over at Harry Epstein Co.

toolguyd.com

 

[MannyGlocks]

I've worn Sundowner lace up boots that were made in Italy for many years. Very high quality.

Now, they're made in china. Quality...less...

No more Sundowners for me.