National DOJ proposes crackdown on gun shows, Internet sales

[Longwalkhome]

I did not say that.

I said that most of the individual rights enumerated in the US Constitution are Natural Rights that are not restricted only to US Citizens. A person who is not a US citizen is currently allowed to buy/possess a firearm in the US: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-aliens-legally-united-states-purchase-firearms

There is a difference between a Natural Right that every person has, and the freedom to exercise that right. Everybody has the right to voice their opinions, but not everybody has the freedom to do because a lot of countries infringe that right.

Legally in the USA, how do you know they are here Legally? How do you know if the guy you are selling a gun to is a decent man or a serial killer? Point being millions of illegals are crossing the border and many of them were criminals emptied out of the jails and sent here.

Private sellers at a gunshow won't know who is who and as millions flood this country without ID then there is no way to do a real bc.

I am all for every man having the right to own a gun if he isn't a criminal.

 

[Camelfilter]

...I am all for every man having the right to own a gun if he isn't a criminal.

I am all for everyone having the right to own a firearm, even if they are criminals who have done their time.

Problem is our criminal justice system is a joke. So my above statement doesn't apply given our current CJ system...

 

[Longwalkhome]

I am all for everyone having the right to own a firearm, even if they are criminals who have done their time.

Problem is our criminal justice system is a joke. So my above statement doesn't apply given our current CJ system...

There are a lot of ex cons who have served their time and have bought guns. Not legally and normally stolen guns but they have guns. That's why I say anyone who is legal to buy a gun should be allowed to buy one.

 

[Camelfilter]

There are a lot of ex cons who have served their time and have bought guns. Not legally and normally stolen guns but they have guns. That's why I say anyone who is legal to buy a gun should be allowed to buy one.

That's also why I say anyone who's done the crime & served their time should have the same rights as everyone else.

Just not in our current CJ system is all.

They should either be free & trusted, or not out...

 

[Longwalkhome]

That's also why I say anyone who's done the crime & served their time should have the same rights as everyone else.

Just not in our current CJ system is all.

They should either be free & trusted, or not out...

In general I agree that time served gets your rights back. I don't think anyone convicted of violent crime should but they will get a gun illegally if they want one.

 

[Camelfilter]

In general I agree that time served gets your rights back. I don't think anyone convicted of violent crime should but they will get a gun illegally if they want one.

IMO:

They should either be free & trusted, or not out...

 

[Alexx1401]

IMO:

I have LONG said the same. If the person is too dangerous to own a gun why are they roaming around? Why do those who drink, drive, and kill get to keep driving? Many have no problem with some criminal who does the time, gets out and is doing the "right thing" never having a gun. Yet the guy who drives drunk and wipes out some family? They are fine with that one driving again. Often the same person does this multiple times in a span of little time. Yet we keep handing them a car to kill again. Why should killing with a car be different than killing with a gun? Same with those who choose to run from Cops in a car and kill. Why should they be treated different than some criminal who kills with a gun? If they kill with a baseball bat should they no longer be able to own a bat? Why it is only guns???

 

[nwslopoke]

400 million guns in the nation is a huge amount of wealth. By simply saying you can't sell your gun they have stolen your wealth.

Is there a legal standing that you have to prove ownership of your guns not used in a crime? Serious question.

We see you own a Glock ser# xxxx. What happens when you don't produce it. Hypothetical search warrant also doesn't produce it. You haven't committed a crime.

 

[Alexx1401]

Is there a legal standing that you have to prove ownership of your guns not used in a crime? Serious question.

We see you own a Glock ser# xxxx. What happens when you don't produce it. Hypothetical search warrant also doesn't produce it. You haven't committed a crime.

This sounds good on paper. Then there is what happens in life. If for some reason they choose to come after you over said gun. You can't produce it, can't show it was legally transferred, "they" do not have prove you committed a crime yet. All "they" have to do is charge you with a crime and your life can be ruined. You "may" beat them in court YEARS down the line but, in the meantime how much does it end up costing you? They will not do this in mass, they don't have to. All it takes is a few examples scattered around to throw a LOT of fear out. That is their power. Making law abiding fear them, since we know the criminals could of course care less.

 

[wired]

Is there a legal standing that you have to prove ownership of your guns not used in a crime? Serious question.

We see you own a Glock ser# xxxx. What happens when you don't produce it. Hypothetical search warrant also doesn't produce it. You haven't committed a crime.

No. They, local PD, can come and ask you where your gun you bought x years ago is. You answer " I sold it to some guy 5 years ago, I dont know where he is now". They get bent out of shape and tell you your a bad citizen, you tell them to get off your lawn. End of story.

I just described an encounter with the Kelso PD 18 years ago.

 

[Alexx1401]

No. They, local PD, can come and ask you where your gun you bought x years ago is. You answer " I sold it to some guy 5 years ago, I dont know where he is now". They get bent out of shape and tell you your a bad citizen, you tell them to get off your lawn. End of story.

I just described an encounter with the Kelso PD 18 years ago.

Stuff like this is why they are trying real hard now to make more laws. I have lost track of how many guns I have bought and sold over my life. Several years ago though this state said no more of that. After that law went in for every gun I bought they can say "what happened to it?". If I say I sold it to "some guy" I am admitting I broke the law. If I say its lost or stolen? They will want to know when I reported it lost or stolen. Its why I now have more guns than I have ever had at any one time in my life. Can't really sell anymore unless I take a hit on cash. So I don't buy a lot of stuff I would love to buy and play with, and am not willing to let go of what I have cash tied up in. Meanwhile the criminal scum can have any gun they want and could of course care less since the law here could care less.

 

[The Heretic]

I just described an encounter with the Kelso PD 18 years ago.

That was 18 years ago.

When the gun grabbers are good and ready, they won't repeat mistakes of the past.

They will tear apart your walls and ceilings - they will grab anything and everything they can, including any funds you have in a bank - they will do this because they can, and have in the past.

 

[wired]

That was 18 years ago.

When the gun grabbers are good and ready, they won't repeat mistakes of the past.

They will tear apart your walls and ceilings - they will grab anything and everything they can, including any funds you have in a bank - they will do this because they can, and have in the past.

Sounds like you live in the wrong place

 

[gmerkt]

Here in Wash. state, we don't have to be concerned with this latest DOJ "crackdown." We aren't allowed to sell privately.

They, local PD, can come and ask you where your gun you bought x years ago is. You answer " I sold it to some guy 5 years ago, I dont know where he is now".

They can and will. I've been a pretty good record keeper over the years when it comes to guns that were on paper to me. I take a different approach, giving them the information they want is an easier way to make them go away.

 

[The Heretic]

Sounds like you live in the wrong place

In that respect, yes.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Is there a legal standing that you have to prove ownership of your guns not used in a crime? Serious question.

We see you own a Glock ser# xxxx. What happens when you don't produce it. Hypothetical search warrant also doesn't produce it. You haven't committed a crime.

I am not a lawyer, I am a cynical old man that doesn't trust the government to follow the constitution. I see them make up rules as they go so I expect it to get worse...and it will.

All my life I have heard "they can't do that" and they do it anyway.

 

[Alexx1401]

Sounds like you live in the wrong place

Sadly this is spreading. Slowly creeping along as many move to get away from it. Not to mention this is NOT just state or local level problems. One thing the "we hate Cops" crowd has no idea they are getting is more fed control. Local LEO departments are often more worried about the local people who vote. If fed people decide to make you miserable they could care less as they are not accountable. Sadly many are supporting this thinking its just not going to effect them. By the time it does its of course too late.

 

[wired]

Sadly this is spreading. Slowly creeping along as many move to get away from it. Not to mention this is NOT just state or local level problems. One thing the "we hate Cops" crowd has no idea they are getting is more fed control. Local LEO departments are often more worried about the local people who vote. If fed people decide to make you miserable they could care less as they are not accountable. Sadly many are supporting this thinking its just not going to effect them. By the time it does its of course too late.

I just dont see that in this region. Sorry

 

[Longwalkhome]

Sadly this is spreading. Slowly creeping along as many move to get away from it. Not to mention this is NOT just state or local level problems. One thing the "we hate Cops" crowd has no idea they are getting is more fed control. Local LEO departments are often more worried about the local people who vote. If fed people decide to make you miserable they could care less as they are not accountable. Sadly many are supporting this thinking its just not going to effect them. By the time it does its of course too late.

Frankly, people voted for this. Now it doesn't matter how they vote because the system is corrupt. The consequences are going to be interesting and I hope to live long enough to watch how it all plays out.

 

[Alexx1401]

Frankly, people voted for this. Now it doesn't matter how they vote because the system is corrupt. The consequences are going to be interesting and I hope to live long enough to watch how it all plays out.

I have long said we just need some real pain felt. It seems to be the only way things change sadly.