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Discussion in 'Handgun Discussion' started by CharlesAFerg, Jun 29, 2010.
Curious about your thoughts.
Are you confident with newer .380 rounds?
I used to carry a P232, but always felt undergunned with it. Probably mostly a psychological thing on my part as there are a lot of folks who are dead as Caesar's ghost as a result of a run in with a .380. I just made a personal decision that I wouldn't carry anything smaller than a 9mm.
Surely Sig could produce a 9mm p232. It would seem like a logical step, because I know so many like you who don't feel it is quite adequate. With such a fine weapon, you figure they would catch on and find a way to produce a reliable 9mm variant.
An associate of mine told me the other day, though, that technological advances in ammunition within even the past 10 years has really amped up the .380 to something worth considering. Personally, I don't know much about the ballistics, but I guess it may be worth considering? The advances in P, +P, P+P, etc. in 9mm and .40 S&W immediately came to mind. Considering this, I would think that his statement would be a realistic proposition.
From my most current experience, the power in the .357 Sig round is unbelievable from a firers point of view. I have been shooting that round the most lately, but it's just a tad bit difficult to reliably find ammunition for it.
I've read somewhere recently that due to the low energy of the .380 round you are better off using FMJ to get decent penetration since if the round DOES expand it won't go deep enough to have the desired effect, and that's if it DOES expand. I really like the Sig P230 and P232 but I think .380 is best in a tiny pocket gun where nothing else will fit.
The p232 has a straight blowback design that's not suitable for anything more powerful than the .380.
I recently bought a P230 for light carry (tee shirt and shorts). I decided to stagger the ammo with gold dot HP and FMJ ammo as I'm concerned with penitration. Still looking for a deal on a S&W 38 airweight but expect the P230 will do the job, eight center mass shots at someone dressed for the summer weather. should make them reconsider there actions.
Sort of. 9mm Makarov is a little meaner than .380, and all of the 9x18 pistols (that are available here in the USA at least) are straight blowback. They did experiment with a 9x19 version, but the project never went anywhere and was soon abandoned.
Hi-Points however, are blowback pistols as well, and include handguns in 9x19, .40, and .45auto. Of course, the drawback there is you get pistols with the size and weight more appropriate to a power drill than to a hhandgun. My guess would be, even though it's said the Soviets concluded the 9x18 is the most powerful round a blowback pistol could handle, their designers didn't literally think that was the case, but rather that 9x18 is the most powerful you can get and still have a practical pistol.
As for the OP's question.
I personally wouldn't opt for the Sig 232.
Not because I have anything against the .380 round, often times I carry nothing more than a .32acp... but because the size/weight combination (and to a lesser extent the price) doesn't really appeal to me in light of the smaller caliber. Not that a it's big or heavy gun, but there are smaller, thinner 9mm (or even .40S&W) pistols with the same ammo capacity, the same weight, and available without spending tons of money. There may be the recoil argument, but the recoil on straight blowback pistols in .380 and 9x18 is actually quite comparable to many larger-caliber weapons. Like I said, I don't object to smaller calibers, but I think if you choose to carry a weaker gun, you should gain something not available in a more potent one (such as concealability).
Check out Hornady Critical Defense ammo
I don't carry the sig, but, the Walther PPK/S in that size. I do not feel undergunned, and, I will definitely hit where I want to with it.
Shoot some of the new .380 ammo at various targets (not paper!) and then decide if you're undergunned.
I suppose more is better and I sometimes carry larger calibers, but I'm comfortable with a pocket full of .380.
I do, and have no regrets. I think it would be adequate in most situations.
380acp PPK. I do not feel undergunned.
32acp, even 25acp has killed many a man. I feel confident with 380 defensive loads. I wish 9mm came in a smaller package as I primarily carry in the pocket in summer. In the winter, it's all about my G17.
Umm, it does come in a smaller package check out the Kel Tecs and Kahrs.
I find the KelTec offerings severely lacking and not fun to shoot. They are just too skinny in my big hands. The trigger pull sucks IMHO. Not for me. Probably perfect for others though. I am looking forward to trying out the Kahr's though.
I'm not a big fan of Kel Tec either, and understand some don't like buying Kahrs either, I was just pointing out there ARE smaller 9mm pistols than the PPK and P232. I'm not totally against .380, I just think it should be in a much smaller package, like my new LCP.
My P232 is my primary, in town, carry gun in an IWB Bianchi 100 series holster... disappears, even in shorts and a tee shirt. I carry the 90gr. Hornady Critical Defense rounds in both the gun and the extra mag in my pocket.
When in the Great Outdoors, it's a Ruger 2-3/4" Speed Six in .357, carried either in a Tex Shoemaker OWB, or a Uncle Mikes IWB...out there I don't think the .380 would be sufficient...
I dont trust the .380 round, and I dont trust the new crop of pocket pistols that are chambered for it. A recent issue of American Rifleman did a review of these guns (3AT, LCP, TCP etc.) and all of them displayed feeding and extraction issues out of the box. Combine that with the astronomical cost and spotty availability of .380 ammo and you have a gun that can be a real challenge to get dialed in with a reliable, effective defense load. In my opinion, the best choice out there for a "pocket gun" is the Ruger LCR .38+P snubbie in a decent pocket holster, it packs a lot more punch than any .380 with none of the reliability issues.
I had a P230 for quite a while. A solid, good performing piece out of the box. Always reliable with the older JHP's such as Hydrashoks and Silvertips. Some people don't care for the heel mag release.
I carried the Sig232 when I first got my carry license. A shooting friend and I took a couple of courses to hone our skills with that pistol.
I found it very easy to shoot well and reliable. Its not like a kel-tec 380, which is more of an up close and personal 380. The Sig is a 380 that will make good groups at a respectable distance.
The two of us got so we could empty a magazine and pop in a new one and put up a nice target group. So if you train with it some it will work well for defensive carry provided you use the right ammo.
I used the Winchester Silvertips for years and found them very reliable.
I did switch back to my Kel-tec 380 due to the small size and weight of the poly pistol. Its just easier to live with in the front pocket and hard to detect.
If you hang out in dangerous parts of town, or work security/police duty, then by all means jump up to a larger caliber.
I carry a Sig 233 regularly when dressing light.Check out Buffalo Bore Plus ammo.1050 to1125 fps I alternate FMJ and hollow point ammo. Had a Ruger LCP and couldn't shoot it very well. The 232 is a little large for a .380 But, that is the reason it is an excellent shooter. I carry in a pocket holster and sometimes a crossbreed IWB. I also carry a Sig 239 in 40 S&W or 45 ACP in a 1911.Depends upon dress and mood, I guess. But, I like and carry my 232.
It is smaller, but not too small. I've got a tall, athletic build so my hands are large yet thin. (Dutch) What I was thinking was to pick up a galco executive for work/out in town. These places, naturally, seem to be taking p more of my time these days.