Darn, Amtrak policy re: firearms

[solv3nt]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I find myself planning on using Amtrak. After calling the Amtrak Police, I was informed that it is against their "policy" to allow you to carry concealed weapon with a permit, but this is ONLY policy, there is no federal or local law mandating this. Amtrak is a private company that receives federal money. Since it is a private company, if found with a weapon, you can be prosecuted with trespassing with a weapon if you refuse to leave.

Two questions:
1) Does Amtrak have a visible sign saying "no firearms"?
2) Does Amtrak have metal detectors?

 

[Callidus98]

I have taken Amtrak several times this year but only between San Diego and LA. There was no metal detector or security check of any kind. As to signs, I'm not sure. They may also have something in the fine print in the ticket agreement.

 

[Keane]

Nope this was discussed a while ago, it's the same felony as being caught with a firearm on a plane now. If you conceal carry and dont claim it, it's a felony. It's somewhere in here:
27 CFR 178.31

2001 CFR Title 27, Volume 1


Wait a few months and you can then put them in your bags
Senate passes measure to allow gun transport on Amtrak - CNN.com

That's not what that says! 27 CFR 178.31 says you have to declare it when you give it to them as common/contract carrier. They are neither in the case of carry-on baggage, only checked baggage. No problem carrying on, worst they can do is ask you to leave (at least in Oregon, since Trespass is their only outlet). Not sure what WA state says, but I seem to remember it being similar.

 

[gogoDawgs]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I find myself planning on using Amtrak. After calling the Amtrak Police, I was informed that it is against their "policy" to allow you to carry concealed weapon with a permit, but this is ONLY policy, there is no federal or local law mandating this. Amtrak is a private company that receives federal money. Since it is a private company, if found with a weapon, you can be prosecuted with trespassing with a weapon if you refuse to leave.

Two questions:
1) Does Amtrak have a visible sign saying "no firearms"?
2) Does Amtrak have metal detectors?

There are no signs, nor do they have the weight of law.
There are no metal detectors either.

I have traveled Amtrak many times, concealed on my person with no issues.

Interestingly, the AMTRAK rules only purport to ban carry of guns in "checked and carry-on baggage," not handguns carried on your person. AMTRAK further warrants that any passenger may refuse search or ID checks and "and a refund will be offered."

 

[solv3nt]

Excellent

 

[Solomon]

The TSA can and will randomly show up to Amtrak and Greyhound stations. It doesn't happen much, but it does happen... twice to me. Both times my bags were searched by not my person. This doesn't mean you'll have the same experience.

Keep this in mind if you're going the "concealed means concealed" route.

 

[Grunwald]

The TSA can and will randomly show up to Amtrak and Greyhound stations. It doesn't happen much, but it does happen... twice to me. Both times my bags were searched by not my person. This doesn't mean you'll have the same experience.

Keep this in mind if you're going the "concealed means concealed" route.

You should have asked them to present a search warrant if they wanted to search you bags.
No freaking way are they searching my bags without a warrant!

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

I honestly don't see why a travel agency be it greyhound or Amtrak have very pro firearm and sportsman polices.. Honestly, what could it hurt.. If anything the influx of possible extra business from firearm enthusiasts alike might actually ween amtrak off government subsidization. Even open carry would be a huge plus, I'd have more respect for them that they actually have trust and good faith in us firearm enthusiast. Kind of like starbucks.

Think about it, a train or bus full of firearm packing travelers would be the absolute last place a terrorist or violent perpetrator would choose to inflict harm. Criminals are weak moraless opportunists that prey on this new form of hybrid called sheeple.

 

[deen_ad]

get a utah permit and carry most every western state except cal,and nev

I don't think Oregon recognizes anyone else's permits. Washington does.

 

[clearconscience]

Congrats to your Mom! I hope she's still in good health for now and always. I know cancer is one ugly B. I've watched friends and family pass from it. I'm happy to hear another person beat it.

F Amtrak.

 

[Redcap]

What they don't know won't hurt you. Concealed means concealed.

 

[m1gunr]

Excellent, my Oregon and WA CCL will get me from Oregon to Montana through Idaho and Washington for skiing

Montana has specific rules on carrying firearms on a train

45-8-339. Carrying firearms on train -- penalty. (1) Except as authorized by the management of a railroad, it is unlawful for a person not authorized to carry a weapon in the course of the person's official duties to knowingly or purposely carry or transport firearms on a train in this state unless, prior to boarding, the person has delivered all firearms and ammunition, if any, to the operator of the train.
(2) A person violating this section shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $500 or by imprisonment in the county jail for a period not exceeding 6 months, or both.

 

[Flyingswords]

Do you even have to go thru metal detectors to board Amtrak? Do they check luggage? Just curious as I have never travelled Amtrak. My son's fiance (girlfriend at the time) used to come down on Amtrak from Seattle to visit, but I never saw anyone checking luggage or wanding anyone.

It depends at some stations. I know Chicago Union station employs rotating detectors (meaning some days they use em and some days they dont) (sometimes they even bring TSA in to check *scary*). The more remote stops along major routes tend to not have them. I traveled Amtrak twice from Union Station in Chicago IL to SLC Utah. and Maricopa AZ to Chicago IL, None of which employed any detectors or bag checks atm. But dont take my word for it. Just a little heads up there.

 

[solv3nt]

Thanks for that one, I guess I will have to surrender my piece

Montana has specific rules on carrying firearms on a train

45-8-339. Carrying firearms on train -- penalty. (1) Except as authorized by the management of a railroad, it is unlawful for a person not authorized to carry a weapon in the course of the person's official duties to knowingly or purposely carry or transport firearms on a train in this state unless, prior to boarding, the person has delivered all firearms and ammunition, if any, to the operator of the train.
(2) A person violating this section shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $500 or by imprisonment in the county jail for a period not exceeding 6 months, or both.

 

[Redcap]

Thanks for that one, I guess I will have to surrender my piece

Only if you care about such asinine 'laws'.

 

[Adam12]

I'm not sure why you'd want to go by train- unless you have an extra week to get to your destination. I don't know I've ever been on one that was on time. I do know TSA will show up with metal detectors and dogs at PDX and other large stations.

 

[fd15k]

There are no signs, nor do they have the weight of law.
There are no metal detectors either.

I have traveled Amtrak many times, concealed on my person with no issues.

There are two sources of information regarding Amtrak. First, is Senate Amendment 2366 to HR 3288

Bill Summary & Status - 111th Congress (2009 - 2010) - S.AMDT.2366 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

Sec. __. (a) Funding Limitation.--Notwithstanding any other provision of law, beginning on the date of the enactment of this Act, amounts made available in this Act for the National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak) shall immediately cease to be available if Amtrak prohibits the secure transportation of firearms on passenger trains.

(b) Definition.--In this section, the term ``secure transportation of firearms'' means--

(1) if an Amtrak station accepts checked baggage for a specific Amtrak route, Amtrak passengers holding a ticket for such route are allowed to place an unloaded firearm or starter pistol in a checked bag on such route if--

(A) before checking the bag or boarding the train, the passenger declares to Amtrak, either orally or in writing, that the firearm is in his or her bag and is unloaded;

(B) the firearm is carried in a hard-sided container;

(C) such container is locked; and

(D) only the passenger has the key or combination for such container; and

(2) Amtrak passengers are allowed to place small arms ammunition for personal use in a checked bag on an Amtrak route if the ammunition is securely packed--

(A) in fiber, wood, or metal boxes; or

(B) in other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.

Second is the USC Title 49

AMTRAK SECURITY EVALUATION AND DEVELOPMENT OF PROCEDURES FOR
FIREARM STORAGE AND CARRIAGE IN CHECKED BAGGAGE CARS AND STATIONS
Pub. L. 111-117, div. A, title I, Sec. 159, Dec. 16, 2009, 123
Stat. 3061, as amended by Pub. L. 111-212, title III, Sec. 3009,
July 29, 2010, 124 Stat. 2340, provided that:
"(a) Amtrak Security Evaluation. - No later than 180 days after
the enactment of this Act [Dec. 16, 2009], Amtrak, in consultation
with the Assistant Secretary of Homeland Security (Transportation
Security Administration), shall submit a report to Congress that
contains -
"(1) a comprehensive, system-wide, security evaluation; and
"(2) proposed guidance and procedures necessary to implement a
new checked firearms program.
"(b) Developement and Implementation of Guidance and Procedures. -

"(1) In General. - Not later than one year after the enactment
of this Act [Dec. 16, 2009], Amtrak, in consultation with the
Assistant Secretary, shall develop and implement guidance and
procedures to carry out the duties and responsibilities of
firearm storage and carriage in checked baggage cars and at
Amtrak stations that accept checked baggage.
"(2) Scope. - The guidance and procedures developed under
paragraph (1) shall -
"(A) permit Amtrak passengers holding a ticket for a specific
Amtrak route to place an unloaded firearm or starter pistol in
a checked bag on such route if -
"(i) the Amtrak station accepts checked baggage for such
route;
"(ii) the passenger declares to Amtrak, either orally or in
writing, at the time the reservation is made or not later
than 24 hours before departure, that the firearm will be
placed in his or her bag and will be unloaded;
"(iii) the firearm is in a hard-sided container;
"(iv) such container is locked; and
"(v) only the passenger has the key or combination for such
container;
"(B) permit Amtrak passengers holding a ticket for a specific
Amtrak route to place small arms ammunition for personal use in
a checked bag on such route if the ammunition is securely
packed -
"(i) in fiber, wood, or metal boxes; or
"(ii) in other packaging specifically designed to carry
small amounts of ammunition; and
"(C) include any other measures needed to ensure the safety
and security of Amtrak employees, passengers, and
infrastructure, including -
"(i) requiring inspections of any container containing a
firearm or ammunition; and
"(ii) the temporary suspension of firearm carriage service
if credible intelligence information indicates a threat
related to the national rail system or specific routes or
trains.
"(c) Definitions. -
"(1) [sic] For purposes of this section, the term 'checked
baggage' refers to baggage transported that is accessible only to
select Amtrak employees."

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/49C243.txt

While I didn't do my full research to find the actual prohibition, just ask yourself this: if it took the whole Congress to allow transportation of firearms on Amtrak, do you think there is no penalty for illegal possession ?

 

[gogoDawgs]

There are two sources of information regarding Amtrak. First, is Senate Amendment 2366 to HR 3288

Bill Summary & Status - 111th Congress (2009 - 2010) - S.AMDT.2366 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)



Second is the USC Title 49



http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/49C243.txt

While I didn't do my full research to find the actual prohibition, just ask yourself this: if it took the whole Congress to allow transportation of firearms on Amtrak, do you think there is no penalty for illegal possession ?

You won't find illegal possession.... good luck with that.