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Darn, Amtrak policy re: firearms

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by atypicalparkie, Oct 20, 2010.

  1. atypicalparkie

    atypicalparkie sowfeast poetland, ohraygun Member

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    Ah well, I'm not gonna risk getting refused boarding & messing up the chance to visit my Mom, but I was going to go shooting with some buddies in Seattle. NO transport of firearms-- even unloaded, locked, cased & placed into checked baggage is allowed until Dec. 15th. Same goes for BB/airsoft/paint-ball too. Here's the full text of their policy & the original link ( Amtrak - Firearms in Checked Baggage ) --

    "Firearms in Checked Baggage
    Effective December 15, 2010, passengers will be allowed to check unloaded firearms and ammunition between Amtrak stations and on Amtrak trains that offer checked baggage service. The following policies apply:

    Notification that the passenger will be checking firearms/ammunition must be made no later than 24 hours before train departure by calling Amtrak at 800-USA-RAIL. Online reservations for firearms/ammunition are not accepted.

    All firearms and/or ammunition must be checked at least 30 minutes prior to train departure. Some larger stations require that baggage be checked earlier.

    All firearms (rifles, shotguns, handguns, starter pistols) must be unloaded and in an approved, locked hard-sided container not exceeding 62" L x 17" W x 7" D (1575 mm x 432 mm x 178 mm). The passenger must have sole possession of the key or the combination for the lock to the container. The weight of the container may not exceed 50 lb/23 kg.

    Smaller locked, hard-sided containers containing smaller unloaded firearms such as handguns and starter pistols must be securely stored within a suitcase or other item of checked baggage, but the existence of such a firearm must be declared.

    All ammunition carried must be securely packed in the original manufacturer's container; in fiber, wood, or metal boxes; or in other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. The maximum weight of all ammunition and containers may not exceed 11 lb/5 kg.

    The passenger is responsible for knowing and following all federal, state, and local firearm laws at all jurisdictions to and through which he or she will be travelling.

    All other Amtrak checked baggage policies apply, including limits on the number of pieces of checked baggage, the maximum weight of each piece (50 lb/23 kg).

    Firearms/ammunition may not be carried in carry-on baggage; therefore, checked baggage must be available on all trains and at all stations in the passenger's itinerary.

    At the time of check-in, passengers will be required to complete and sign a two-part Declaration Form.

    BB guns and Compressed Air Guns (to include paintball markers), are to be treated as firearms and must comply with the above firearms policy. Canisters, tanks, or other devices containing propellants must be emptied prior to checking and securely packaged within the contents of the passenger's luggage.

    Notice: Passengers failing to meet the above-mentioned requirements for checking firearms will be denied transportation."

    POOP.
     
  2. CharlesAFerg

    CharlesAFerg Beaverton Active Member

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    Fail.

    CCW? (Silly, because they won't know, but surely they at least have a policy, regardless.)
     
  3. atypicalparkie

    atypicalparkie sowfeast poetland, ohraygun Member

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    You speak truth, Mister. I'm just being... yknow... ultra- :paranoid: since it'll be the 1st time seeing Mom since she was declared cancer-free & I don't want anything to mess it up! And with no CCL reciprocity between Oregon & Washington... though since I do have "compelling business interests" in WA that often require me to transport expensive & rare musical instruments from here to there, that'd probably qualify me for a non-resident WA CCL. Gotta apply for that in any case.

    And who's to say what's in a vintage guitar or mandolin case, which I'd NEVER put in checked-luggage or let out of my sight anyway. Most likely a guitar or mandolin! Or could be my whitworth wrench collection... 3 dozen hockey pucks... maybe some nice river rocks... beware of well-behaved freaks carrying mandolin cases full of hockey pucks :laugh:

    If you want a sleeping aid, here's a link to the full 15 page amtrak-tsa policy document... zzzzzz :rolleyes: x 1,000,000
     
  4. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    You don't need a reason to get a non-resident WA CPL... just a pulse, valid ID, and a clean mental/criminal record... and your checkbook. :D


    BTW- Amtrak can pound sand.
     
    Capn Jack, Redcap, Riot and 3 others like this.
  5. atypicalparkie

    atypicalparkie sowfeast poetland, ohraygun Member

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    Hah! Well said, Stomper:D
     
  6. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    Do you even have to go thru metal detectors to board Amtrak? Do they check luggage? Just curious as I have never travelled Amtrak. My son's fiance (girlfriend at the time) used to come down on Amtrak from Seattle to visit, but I never saw anyone checking luggage or wanding anyone.
     
  7. MarkSBG

    MarkSBG Beaverton Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Is it possible to take another route? ****, I'd almost hitchhike before giving up my CCW...
     
  8. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    Not the last time I took the train (armed, by the way), which was in June. Had no problems.
     
  9. gnarkill

    gnarkill Richland, WA Member

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    I just took the train recently as well and was pissed about this. I hadnt taken the train from pdx before and left the ccw at home since I didnt know if they had metal detectors. Well I know now that they dont and no one would ever know if you just kept it well hidden or in your bag. Not suggesting you do this but just an FYI.
     
  10. spengo

    spengo GLORIOUS CASCADIA Active Member

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    Eh, the worst they can do is ask you to get off the train, right? It is worth the risk imo.
     
  11. m1gunr

    m1gunr Tacoma Member

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    If you have an Oregon CHL take the ferry over to Bremerton from Seattle and apply for a Washington CPL at the Silverdale Sheriff's office. Some have been known to have their CPL before they left the office.

    My understanding is that you have to have another state issued concealed license otherwise you will have to wait the full 60 days.
     
  12. m1gunr

    m1gunr Tacoma Member

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    Check Craigslist under the ride share section. Concealed means concealed.
     
  13. gnarkill

    gnarkill Richland, WA Member

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    Nope this was discussed a while ago, it's the same felony as being caught with a firearm on a plane now. If you conceal carry and dont claim it, it's a felony. It's somewhere in here:
    27 CFR 178.31

    2001 CFR Title 27, Volume 1


    Wait a few months and you can then put them in your bags
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/16/amtrak.guns/
     
  14. CharlesAFerg

    CharlesAFerg Beaverton Active Member

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    Please elaborate on that statement.
     
  15. spengo

    spengo GLORIOUS CASCADIA Active Member

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    If they ask to search you, refuse to consent, get kicked off train. Perhaps this will prevent any felonies?
     
  16. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    they do have a policy: NO concealed weapons allowed. Federal offense just like going through the airport security with a concealed weapon.

    The "Trade Ratings" is low by 3!
    Some people just don't post it I guess

    Deen
    NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
    WAC member
    ACSWW member
     
  17. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    Except that there is no security check on Amtrak. They can have all the policies they want if they don't bother enforcing them. Don't ask me to care that I commit a felony when I ride Amtrak and I won't pretend that I do.
     
  18. gogoDawgs

    gogoDawgs Federal Way, WA Active Member

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    Author Mike Stollenwork

    Sept 2009

    After all the howling earlier this week over at the New York Times Editorial Board about Senate passage of the Wicker Amendment, its refreshing to learn that the Board of Directors of the Virginia Rail Express (VRE) voted yesterday to let train riders carry guns. While the Wicker Amendment passed by the Senate this week requires AMTRAK to let train riders check their unloaded guns in cases onto trains as is done by the airlines, the VRE Board passed a resolution just two days later (September 18, 2009) to let riders carry loaded guns.

    The new official policy just conforms VRE regulations to Virginia law which is like that of most states, requiring a permit to conceal handguns, and requiring that those open carrying handguns be at least 18 years of age (no permit required). But citizen carry of loaded guns on trains in the DC Metro areas is not really new news.

    The Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority (WMATA, pronounced "wamata) has consistently confirmed that WMATA only enforces state or DC gun laws on its trains, so in Virginia the train carry rules are as stated above, and in Maryland, one needs a carry permit for both open and concealed carry. And in fact, almost every state follows either Virginia or Maryland style carry laws on trains.

    It is of course unlawful under federal law at 18 USC 922(e) to use a train or other common carrier to ship and deliver a firearm "in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors." But this is the familiar federal rule applicable by vehicle or on foot as well - since 1968 federal law has mandated use of the gun dealer network to execute interstate gun transfers, though intestate transfers are exempt, and of course folks are free to set up residences in other states and can then sell their guns to others living in that state in private sales. See generally 18 USC 922(a)&(b).

    However, as is the case in vehicle or foot travel, nobody commits a crime under federal law (unless you count DC law) for merely traveling the country while carrying your loaded gun on AMTRAK. And while this may violate AMTRAK's non-criminal "rules," these rules are constitutionally questionable under the US Supreme Court's decision in Lebron v. National R.R. Passenger Corp., 513 U.S. 374 (1995) (holding that where the Government creates a corporation by special law (i.e., AMTRAK) for the furtherance of governmental objectives, and retains for itself permanent authority to appoint a majority of that corporation's directors, the corporation is part of the Government for purposes of the First Amendment).

    Interestingly, the AMTRAK rules only purport to ban carry of guns in "checked and carry-on baggage," not handguns carried on your person. AMTRAK further warrants that any passenger may refuse search or ID checks and "and a refund will be offered."

    So hats off to the VRE Board for doing the right thing and clarifying that commuters can carry guns on trains just like they can off the train. And hats off to Senator Roger Wicker (R - Mississippi) for pushing AMTRAK to allow riders to check unloaded guns - after all, who wants to hold that long gun in your arms for hours and hours on the nice and comfortable Acela Express?

    But let's just hope the House of Representatives passes the Wicker Amendment "as is" and not with any rider purporting to ban the currently legal carry of loaded guns by passengers on AMTRAK trains.
     
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  19. wwkii

    wwkii gilchrist oregon Active Member

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    get a utah permit and carry most every western state except cal,and nev
     
    soberups and (deleted member) like this.
  20. CharlesAFerg

    CharlesAFerg Beaverton Active Member

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    Why is it a federal offense to carry concealed on amtrak?
     
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