Converting to Full Auto??

rockstardrnkr · Jan 12, 2012

I was browsing through the ATF website, it seems like it is possible to convert a semi auto rifle to full auto with a conversion kit as long as you have prior approval from the ATF to make it.

Anyone legally convert a AR15 to full auto ?? Would love to hear some info if you did.

thanks

halmbarte · Jan 12, 2012

Lots of people do it perfectly legally.

You need to buy a registered DIAS or get your SOT license.

Drop In Auto Sear

Federal Firearms License - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

H

Nwcid · Jan 12, 2012

Yes and no. There is NO legal way for a private party to legally make an AR-15 into a full auto. This happened in 1986, Firearm Owners Protection Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are Drop In Auto Sears aka DIAS's and Lightning Links aka LL's which are considered the Machine Gun and are their OWN registered part. You can legally use one of these registered parts in an AR-15 to make the shoot full auto. The AR-15 stays an AR-15 and the Registered part stays the registered part. Last time I looked either ran about $10,000 but might be down a bit right now.

Also your location shows WA and while Silencers, DD's and AOW are legal MG, SBS and SBR are not legal.

Here is a link that describes NFA basics, GunBroker.com Message Forums - Basic NFA FAQ (update 4-6-11)

Mark W. · Jan 12, 2012

You could also do this with a registered M1 to M2 conversion kit. Again the price is very high.

WhitneyPrecision · Jan 14, 2012

While I am not completly abreast of WA state laws, it is my understanding that it is no longer possible to transfer a machinegun either into WA state or even between WA residents.

Latest prices on the Machine Gun Price Guide show RDIAS at ~$16k and LL's at ~$7.5k. It is interesting also to note the volume of sales figures also noted in the chart. It is a perfect example of diminishing supply and increasing demand.

halmbarte · Jan 14, 2012

You need to be a SOT to have the cool NFA gear in WA.

H

Nwcid · Jan 14, 2012

From my post above, NOT all NFA is illegal.

Also your location shows WA and while Silencers, DD's and AOW are legal MG, SBS and SBR are not legal.

WhitneyPrecision · Jan 14, 2012

halmbarte said:
You need to be a SOT to have the cool NFA gear in WA.

H

Even being an SOT payer is not enough. You are also required to provide a reason for acquisition in accordance with exemption allowed by WA state law 9.41.190.

doubletap007 · Jan 14, 2012

WhitneyPrecision said:
Even being an SOT payer is not enough. You are also required to provide a reason for acquisition in accordance with exemption allowed by WA state law 9.41.190.

hows this for a reason?............i have way too much money and would like to empty $50 every 8 seconds in ammo out of my
$16,000 rifle?

Stomper · Jan 15, 2012

Sheesh... with an attitude like that you should be in charge of the Senate instead of that dope from Nevada!

PhantomWorks · Feb 1, 2012

I just read up some on this, and it turn out if you find (and can afford) a fullauto rifle built AND registered BEFORE may -86 ANYBODY can own in all states without any class 3 license or nothing..!

Probably can't afford one though...

nubus · Feb 1, 2012

PhantomWorks said:
I just read up some on this, and it turn out if you find (and can afford) a fullauto rifle built AND registered BEFORE may -86 ANYBODY can own in all states without any class 3 license or nothing..!

Probably can't afford one though...

Per Federal law you are right. Washington will not allow you to acquire one though.
Move to Oregon or Idaho if you have any hope of ever owning one personally without an SOT.

Nwcid · Feb 1, 2012

PhantomWorks said:
I just read up some on this, and it turn out if you find (and can afford) a fullauto rifle built AND registered BEFORE may -86 ANYBODY can own in all states without any class 3 license or nothing..!

Probably can't afford one though...

You need to seriously recheck your facts. None of what you just said is true. GunBroker.com Message Forums - Basic NFA FAQ (update 4-6-11)

For private sales ONLY guns made AND registered before 1986 would be legal to own under Federal law. If you do find one and choose to buy you are still required to do the proper NFA paperwork (most likely a Form 4), pay your tax and wait for approval. Of course your state has to allow it as well and WA is one that does NOT allow it. Depending on what you buy legal full auto starts about $3000.

Tornado-Technologies · May 24, 2012

Nwcid said:
There is NO legal way for a private party to legally make an AR-15 into a full auto.

That's not entirely true. A private individual can manufacture a machinegun on an ATF Form 1 if they are an authorized Department of Energy contractor. They can also purchase post sample machineguns.
A private individual can also manufacture a machinegun on an ATF Form 1 if it's being manufactured on behalf of a Goverment agency. It would also be tax free. (see box 1, options b & c on the ATF Form 1).
Not done very often these days, but used to be done a lot back in the day when there were less dealers around.

PBinWA · May 24, 2012

Tornado-Technologies said:
That's not entirely true. A private individual can manufacture a machinegun on an ATF Form 1 if they are an authorized Department of Energy contractor. They can also purchase post sample machineguns.
A private individual can also manufacture a machinegun on an ATF Form 1 if it's being manufactured on behalf of a Goverment agency. It would also be tax free. (see box 1, options b & c on the ATF Form 1).
Not done very often these days, but used to be done a lot back in the day when there were less dealers around.

Good post. Of course a sane person wonders why the hell the DOE has any need to be involved with machine guns? Our government is broken and beyond hope.

Nwcid · May 24, 2012

Tornado-Technologies said:
That's not entirely true. A private individual can manufacture a machinegun on an ATF Form 1 if they are an authorized Department of Energy contractor. They can also purchase post sample machineguns.
A private individual can also manufacture a machinegun on an ATF Form 1 if it's being manufactured on behalf of a Goverment agency. It would also be tax free. (see box 1, options b & c on the ATF Form 1).
Not done very often these days, but used to be done a lot back in the day when there were less dealers around.

Ok, so maybe poor wording for my post. But as you state it might be a private party making it, but it is still not for their or private use. It is a private guy that has authorization from the government to make guns for the "government".

Tornado-Technologies · May 24, 2012

No worries, was just pointing out some obscurities.
In the case of a DOE contractor, they're actually making machineguns for their business. If they're a sole proprietor (which I doubt any of them are) they would in fact be able to retain it personally as long as they hold a DOE contract.

There's also other exemptions - individuals such as Paris Theodore, of 7 trees holster and ASP pistol fame. He was basically the gadget gun manufacturer for the DoD/CIA. I saw a copy of the love letter his son had from the the ATF that stated that Paris was "exempt from all provisions of the National Firearms Act" Get this he was based in NYC too of all places!

Nwcid said:
Ok, so maybe poor wording for my post. But as you state it might be a private party making it, but it is still not for their or private use. It is a private guy that has authorization from the government to make guns for the "government".

ScorpioMk · May 28, 2012

WhitneyPrecision said:
Even being an SOT payer is not enough. You are also required to provide a reason for acquisition in accordance with exemption allowed by WA state law 9.41.190.

(b) A person, including an employee of such person if the employee has undergone fingerprinting and a background check, who or which is exempt from or licensed under federal law, and engaged in the production, manufacture, repair, or testing of machine guns, short-barreled shotguns, or short-barreled rifles: