Conceal Carry caliber

[Blitzkrieg]

The idea is a meth head/crack addict at 300 pounds is inconsistent with the addictive process for those drugs (at least in my experience with addicts). Now, if you said PCP or pot user, sure, 300 pounds is ok. But meth/crack users typically aren't that bulky (by the time they are to the "crack head" stage, anyway).

I've seen skinny ones and I've seen HUGE fat ones of at least 450 lbs. Maybe the fat ones are just getting started

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I've been down the .32, .380, etc road and agree with Blitz here. Is the .380 capable of inflicting a mortal wound? Yes, without question but so can a .22lr, both have and will continue to do so, but that doesn't mean I'm going to choose either when it comes to saving my tail. The .380 lacks penetration and penetration is the single most important factor when it comes to a bullet doing its job. If it doesn't reach the vitals it can't do its job. I'll stick with 9mm and .38 special as my cut off point, both are vastly superior to .380 and with several .380 sized 9mm pistol options out there the size thing isn't much, if any, advantage. Example: Look at a Kahr PM9.

BUG's: .380 ACP vs. .38 Sp

BTW not all tweakers are the skinny, strung-out type they come in all sizes and shapes.

Good points and I'll add another.. most .380s are straight blowback, are light guns and kick more than a compact 9MM that has a locking lug system

 

[mjbskwim]

You just need to carry the largest caliber you can conceal and actually hit your target with.
If that is a 22LR then so be it.
But if you can't hit anything with a 454 Casull it won't be very effective will it?

Shot placement is paramount

 

[Riot]

You are talking about the mechanics of the shooter I am referring to the mechanics of the round which is at the heart of the debate of .380 effectiveness or lack thereof. If a perfectly placed shot to the heart is unable to penetrate the heavy jacket and sternum (or perhaps a sleeve and arm) of your attacker what good is it? And at that point it makes little difference how long it's been around or who designed it. Bottom line there is a reason .380 is relegated to the BUG role and not the duty role among those who use a pistol for a living. Name the organizations that issue or authorize 380 for duty the list will be short.

It has long been a debate of the perfect balance between concealability and comfort vs. effectiveness and shootability, and as other have noted that is a personal choice, but the .380 lands squarely in the former category. I prefer a little better balance.

FYI, a LOT of people have fielded the .380 auto for duty carry...

Other names for .380 ACP include .380 Auto, 9mm Browning, 9mm Corto, 9mm Kurz, 9mm Short, and 9x17mm.

The .380 ACP has experienced widespread use in the years since its introduction. It was famously used by many German officers during World War II in the Walther PPK, as well as by Italian forces in the M1934 Beretta.

The driving factor of pusing out the .380 ACP to 9x19mm was the adaptation of making 9mm a NATO caliber. I'd recon that if it wasn't for NATO, there would still be an abundance of 8mm Mauser and/or British .303 vs. 7.62x51 (i.e. .308) as well as .380 ACP over 9x19 (i.e. 9mm).

 

[Hook686]

Different strokes for different folks for sure. One post mentioned, "... I think the 9mm with 124gr +P is the minimum of defense rounds. I do carry a snubby, which is .38 +P in my pocket as backup...." I carry a .38+P in my pocket as primary and a 9mm, with 147 +P+ as backup.

It comes down to what you are comfortable with and shoot well.

 

[Riot]

So going back over 65 years to a bunch of dudes with token sidearms constitutes duty use?

Name one modern sizable police force or military that uses 380. I'd be willing to bet there are more that prohibit its use.

Riiight, because anything being fielded in WWII is obsolete today...

*cough* .45 ACP *cough*

The fact that it isn't authorized for "duty use" says little about the caliber and more about the politics involved. Would 10mm not be a great caliber for LEO use? What about 5.7x28? Surely a 20rnd mag of small rifle-like bullets from an FN Five-Seven would make a great duty pistol, but (alas) it is not allowed so I guess it must be crap.

 

[jesse]

I guess the subject should of been Pocket Carry Caliber. Since this was the intent of this thread.

Hello,
I have a G-27 currently. I love this gun. However, I want to carry another handgun.

I want one that I can carry in my pocket. I am looking at P-11 and Ruger LCP 380.

My question. Is a 380 caliber enough for personal protection?


What are people carrying for a second firearm and caliber?

Thanks in advance..

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

you know, it is like Ford/Chevy/Chrysler discussions. Some of us like things one way, others like them another.

No caliber is perfect and there is no "one shot drop" caliber out there. For shooting and concealing, some of us LIKE the option of .380 for a VARIETY of reasons. Some of you don't. That's fine. Means I don't have to worry about you buying .380 at the store.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Riiight, because anything being fielded in WWII is obsolete today...

*cough* .45 ACP *cough*

The fact that it isn't authorized for "duty use" says little about the caliber and more about the politics involved. Would 10mm not be a great caliber for LEO use? What about 5.7x28? Surely a 20rnd mag of small rifle-like bullets from an FN Five-Seven would make a great duty pistol, but (alas) it is not allowed so I guess it must be crap.

The reason no police dept issues .380 as a primary weapon is it's lack of stopping power and penetration, which has already been explained. If it hits an arm or other barriers it may never even reach vital organs. This, with an attacker coming head on at you with a gun or knife?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

you know, it is like Ford/Chevy/Chrysler discussions. Some of us like things one way, others like them another.

No caliber is perfect and there is no "one shot drop" caliber out there. For shooting and concealing, some of us LIKE the option of .380 for a VARIETY of reasons. Some of you don't. That's fine. Means I don't have to worry about you buying .380 at the store.

I have .380s and have carried them as backups.. (3rd pistol) but never again as a primary. I even reload the caliber

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I just bought a SIG P238 for deep concealment on those days where carrying my revolver would be a hassle. I am extremely comfortable with a .380acp for personal protection. Especially with an accurate, reliable, and easy to handle gun. I would rather hit with my .380 than miss with a .45acp.

People love to imagine scenarios where "one shot stop" is needed to stop a threat, but in reality there is no such guarantees with any caliber. The reality is most attackers are going to flee if shot at all by any caliber...if you don't take them down.

Remember, having a pointy stick to fight back with would be enough to take you out of my bad guys "preferred target" category. They do not like people that can fight back. So having a gun of any kind makes you way ahead of most people and a very undesirable target for criminals.

 

[Just Jim]

If you think you are going to need a gun then carry enough gun to do the job. A harden criminal full of drugs with a knife can cross the distance and gut you before a little 380 can take effect. Dress to fit the gun, not get a smaller gun for the way you dress.

jj

 

[CleverName]

I think with the small size and high quality of modern 9mm compact autos, there's no reason to carry a .380 anymore(with a very few exceptions.) If a .380 is all you have, then by all means practice with it and be confident with it.

 

[MA Duce]

I'm 280.. what is the big deal?

Sorry to hear about your addiction....hope you are getting help.

 

[MA Duce]

you know, it is like Ford/Chevy/Chrysler discussions. Some of us like things one way, others like them another.

No caliber is perfect and there is no "one shot drop" caliber out there. For shooting and concealing, some of us LIKE the option of .380 for a VARIETY of reasons. Some of you don't. That's fine. Means I don't have to worry about you buying .380 at the store.

Of course you mean without proper placement. A .22 HP in the brain stem is just one example.

 

[19 Adam]

I have a TCP in .380 that I carry without reservation. If I need to use it, I know I can put several shots where they need to go very quickly.

I agree with Deadeye and Sun195. It's mainly about shot placement. I have seen the results of well placed .380 rounds as the Medical Examiner is picking up the body.

It's still fun to argue caliber like Markjz says. I love my Glock 36! In the summer I feel safe with my .380 stainless that is easily concealed with shorts.

 

[MA Duce]

This argument has been explored in any number of ways here and on countless other forums. Rather than each staking out their territory and flaming any who might have the temerity to take another view, why don't we just agree that a proficient shooter who can rapidly and reliably bring his weapon to bear on a threat and deliver fast, accurate rounds is doing it right?? As for stopping power, there are so many variables in that equation that it should be agreed that it is a conditional situation that can NEVER be settled in a discussion of this type. I have had the unfortunate experience that allows me to say that I have had excellent one shot stops with a .45 ACP. BUT, that was against lightly clothed small framed Asians, against a 300lb man in a heavy coat the situation would be different unless I made a head shot. To the OP: Pick a weapon and caliber you are proficient with, and just roll the dice like the rest of us.

If anyone is looking for a guarantee in life....they are headed for disappointment.

 

[Daev]

The idea is a meth head/crack addict at 300 pounds is inconsistent with the addictive process for those drugs (at least in my experience with addicts). Now, if you said PCP or pot user, sure, 300 pounds is ok. But meth/crack users typically aren't that bulky (by the time they are to the "crack head" stage, anyway).

Yep... I've seen fat herion addicts (which is rare)... but never any fat stimulant addicts (meth, crack, coke, etc)

 

[Misterbill]

All things being equal, bigger is better.

The problem is that all things are NOT equal.

While I would recommend something like a Kahr PM45 as a pocket-gun, that won't do if for whatever reason you just can't shoot it worth a darn. I am that way with snubbie revolvers. The long travel and heaviness of the trigger just makes them useless for me personally as I wont' carry a gun I don't' shoot well.

Budget, concealment, wardrobe requirements, ease of carry are all factors that in real life trump most other considerations. I'm not a great fan of .380, but it's more than adequate in most situations IF YOU CAN SHOOT IT WELL. If you can't hit your target, consistently, under stress, the caliber doesn't even matter. If you can, your chances of running into the jacked-up crack-head who takes two full magazines of .45 to stop are incredibly minimal. -And jacked up on PCP or not, I promise you that a .380JHP fired through the ocular cavity WILL drop your target.

You should be able to do that with any gun you carry. If you can't shoot that well, practice until you can and/or get some training.

 

[motoman98]

If it doesn't start with a 4.... it's too small a hole~