Class III

[VinnieBoomBah]

FWIW, and JMHO, but Pat's worth listing to.

 

[coctailer]

I STRONGLY recommend you re-think your QD choice.
Any can using an a1/a2 flashhider is going to be a bad choice.
Too many companies build those flashhiders so the tolerances are loose.
Meaning the can will have to have loose or OVERSIZED baffles to avoid a baffle strike.

For 90% of civilian use, a thread mount is a better choice.

Also, it is NOT recommended to shoot .22 lr through a .223 can.
.22 is too dirty of ammo to shoot more than a few rounds through it.
MOST .22 cans are designed to dis-assemble for just that reason.

Just my $0.02.
Pat - PCArms
Oregon Research Labs, LLC

Two other sites you should check out are:

http://www.silencerresearch.com/
http://www.silencertests.com/

Just remember, they are JUST REFERENCE SITES,
NOT Gospel, just another WEB SITE,
but some good info, if you can sift through the bull.

+1
YEEEEEEEEARS of experience in PCArms.

 

[spengo]

I STRONGLY recommend you re-think your QD choice.
Any can using an a1/a2 flashhider is going to be a bad choice.
Too many companies build those flashhiders so the tolerances are loose.
Meaning the can will have to have loose or OVERSIZED baffles to avoid a baffle strike.

For 90% of civilian use, a thread mount is a better choice.

Also, it is NOT recommended to shoot .22 lr through a .223 can.
.22 is too dirty of ammo to shoot more than a few rounds through it.
MOST .22 cans are designed to dis-assemble for just that reason.

Just my $0.02.
Pat - PCArms
Oregon Research Labs, LLC

Two other sites you should check out are:

http://www.silencerresearch.com/
http://www.silencertests.com/

Just remember, they are JUST REFERENCE SITES,
NOT Gospel, just another WEB SITE,
but some good info, if you can sift through the bull.

Cool, thanks! I will definitely keep that in mind.

 

[ch139]

I think there are 10 NFA dealers in here

I am a Class II Manufacturer. It's kinda the same as a Class III except I can build my own firearms, suppressors, and Machine guns.

Question for ya.

Can an AOW be made from a long gun?

Specifically was thinking I "need" a NEF Pardner 12ga with about a 6-inch barrel and pistol grip. Just a small, simple 12ga. Kinda akin to a howdah.

 

[Joe Link]

Question for ya.

Can an AOW be made from a long gun?

Specifically was thinking I "need" a NEF Pardner 12ga with about a 6-inch barrel and pistol grip. Just a small, simple 12ga. Kinda akin to a howdah.

Oh man, looking forward to the answer to this

 

[chakup]

I believe in that instance it is an SBS. AOW has to have not had a stock if I remember correctly.

 

[coctailer]

You can make an AOW from a pistol not a long gun.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

CH139, I have the original some place in my stack of gun rags, but here is a text only version of someone doing just that with a sxs
Vince
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_170_28/ai_n6040331

 

[ch139]

oh Snap!

 

[PhilipPeake]

Hey thanks for the quick responses. I understand that a trust might not be the way to go, but I'd like to have a better understanding of my options, can someone better explain the process of a trust?

First, lets deal with the comments about not using a trust, and "circumventing LEO authority"

US law had a deeply embedded principle that there are two types of US person, there is a physical person, such as you and I, then there is a "moral" person, which is a legally defined entity which has many of the same rights as a physical person. The most common forms of these "people" are corporations and trusts. From the point of view of most US law physical and moral persons are identical and indistinguishable.

Taking rights away from moral persons is (from the point of view of the law) no different from trying to take away rights from (say) black people, or Jewish people, or people with less than 10 toes. Not to say that it can't be done, but it would face a huge backlash and almost certain constitutional defeat.

The ATF may not like trusts, but they have lived with corporations and trust since the beginning of their existence.

As for "LEO Authority" - in fact, they have none. Their involvement is not required by law, only by ATF rules. They are not asked for permission to issue your tax samp (although many of then would like it to be that way), but simply to acknowledge that there is no known legal impediment to your possessing an NFA item. This is an anachronism dating back to when it was difficult for the ATF to know all local laws and be aware of all local convictions. It is no longer required, and if pushed, the ATF would have great difficulty in justifying its continued existence.

So, there is no way the ATF can change its rules to exclude trusts any more than it can change its laws to exclude people with slanty eyes or only one arm.

Any change would have to go through congress. Passage would requre re-visiting many laws, and probably fall foul of the US constitution.

As for the practicalities of setting up a trust, read this:

http://ar15.com/content/page.html?id=384

 

[PCArms]

+1
YEEEEEEEEARS of experience in PCArms.

I think I've just been called "An OLD Fart"

Well I do have some BLACK T-Shirts older than some on this board.

Remember, INTERNET ADVICE IS FREE, take it for what it's worth.

But if you want to come out and LISTEN for yourself, we can arrange that.

Pat

 

[Logical1]

coctailer can you help me in doing the necesary hoops for getting a can or two when your ready to sell to the public. I want one for my bush master and one for the gsg-5 if possible or one for my 10/22's if i have to go that avenue. you know I might get one for a 45 cal also....I do like to have my toys.

 

[BIG_GUNNUT]

I think I've just been called "An OLD Fart"

Well I do have some BLACK T-Shirts older than some on this board.

Remember, INTERNET ADVICE IS FREE, take it for what it's worth.

But if you want to come out and LISTEN for yourself, we can arrange that.

Pat

Your not an OLD Fart your an OLD Hippie Fart.

 

[coctailer]

coctailer can you help me in doing the necesary hoops for getting a can or two when your ready to sell to the public. I want one for my bush master and one for the gsg-5 if possible or one for my 10/22's if i have to go that avenue. you know I might get one for a 45 cal also....I do like to have my toys.

No problem. You can stop by and check them out.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

One of the other advantages of taking a drive out to see Pat when your ready to buy is the ability to shoot several different cans side by side. I don't know if other dealers offer this, if they do you should see what everyone has in stock and listen to as many different suppressors as you can.

I don't know all the correct terms, so forgive me this imperfect explanation, but in addition to the reduction in sound (measured in decibels, aka "db") each can will have it's own *tone* so even though one can may have a greater net reduction in db's, to YOUR ear, another can may "sound" better.
I have dealt with both Pat and Coctailer, Big for both of them.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Oh man, looking forward to the answer to this

Why, did you think it would stump us?

 

[Joe Link]

Why, did you think it would stump us?

The thought of a 12ga pistol :winkkiss:

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

The thought of a 12ga pistol :winkkiss:

Yeah . . . funny thing about that. Way back when, before reduced recoil, or "mini" shells, a friend of mine made a pistol grip for an H&R Topper in 12ga. So it turns out that when you hold one of those way out like you would a handgun, with both hands on the pistol grip, and about three feet of steel tube hanging out front, you have to work real hard to keep the barrel from pointing at the ground.
So return with me, if you will, to those halcyon days of my youth, (1980+/- ) and picture a lanky teenage boy, shooting glasses. ball cap and earmuffs in place, all ready to test fire his new 12ga pistol griped shotgun. He has to lean back a bit, even in the Weaver stance, to hold the barrel up. In fact, he is *pulling* the barrel up. So without much ado, the hammer drops.
And suddenly, the barrel stops dropping. Remember, he's pulling it up, and our friend Newton comes along to help. I think I missed half of the cussing he did after the barrel whacked him in the head because I was laughing so hard!


On a side note, if you want to find out which of your friends screams like a teenage girl, get them together, take a cross bow, aim it straight up and say, "Hay guy's, watch this!" *twang*

Oh yeah, you WILL find out who screams like a girl!

P.S. No, of course you should not do either of these things!

 

[fromotoc]

I set one up myself for my so far non-existant purchase of a class three toy, and I used Quicken Willmaker. It was $39 online, somewhere, very easy to make. Took about an hour. Then, you have to print off a certain document, and get it notarized. I haven't used it to buy any class 3 goodies yet, but setting it up was extremely easy, and after reading stories from those who did do a trust compared to those who didn't, I decided to do one. It seems that with the trust, you get your paperwork done much faster, and there are no fingerprint checks.