Charges dropped against the Wuestenbergs

[solv3nt]

This is an interesting case because the attacker is unarmed but threatening violence and escalating. IMO its more like she was trying to egg them into making the first move so she could claim the victim. The dilemma here is how does anyone know the true intentions under such stress? What could we learn from this ?

If someone is harassing you, then says they are going to beat you that seems to escalate the fear of being attacked as immanent. But does it justify using (or threatening to use) deadly force?

IDK, I feel like if they're filming it, they're not likely going to make a first move.

 

[titsonritz]

The big take away for me here is I'll never own a vehicle incapable of running a m'er f'er over without the engine dying.

 

[solv3nt]

The big take away for me here is I'll never own a vehicle incapable of running a m'er f'er over without the engine dying.

Those days may sadly be coming to an end.

 

[Member 53328]

When she threatened to "beat their bubblegum"

Words….

Hypothetical-

I am walking out of a store and you're walking in. As we pass I bump/shoulder check you. You in return look at me and say, "watch where you're going a$$." or something along those lines.

In return I say "F-ck you."

You in return start walking towards me (empty handed) and say "I'm going to beat your a$$ and kill you."

In your opinion I would be in the clear to pull my gun on you. Simply cause you voiced a threat?

 

[Koda]

Words….

Hypothetical-

I am walking out of a store and you're walking in. As we pass I bump/shoulder check you. You in return look at me and say, "watch where you're going a$$." or something along those lines.

In return I say "F-ck you."

You in return start walking towards me (empty handed) and say "I'm going to beat your a$$ and kill you."

In your opinion I would be in the clear to pull my gun on you. Simply cause you voiced a threat?

Depends on the rest of the situation.
What if I was twice your size?

 

[Member 53328]

I didn't really dig into this scenario, but there is such a thing as use of force continuum that could apply. I did watch the video when it first came out. My initial reaction was that, as in almost all situations like this, there are way more details that we don't know than what we see. And it's all "I'm the victim" until the defense subpoenas the phone of the person doing the video and the social media accounts of their entire family. Then reality kinda might set in.

That may be true. But IMO there was no valid reason to pull a gun from what I have read or have seen.

And yes I am very familiar with the force continuum. In the force continuum you can jump levels of force depending on the scenario. But it will be extremely hard to defend going from a verbal altercation to pulling and RACKING a handgun without any weapons or physical assault or intent present between both parties.

If these are the "qualifications" to pull a gun I could be drawing down on someone on a daily basis. As could all the cops that are on duty who have things thrown at them, yelled at, threatened etc.

Some individuals have much better control over their emotions and their actions. Others (like all parties in this video) are extremely lacking. And the fact that the woman is that emotional and carry's a gun is disturbing to say the least…..

My opinion is mine and mine alone. I'm not telling anyone they have to agree with me.

 

[solv3nt]

Words….

Hypothetical-

I am walking out of a store and you're walking in. As we pass I bump/shoulder check you. You in return look at me and say, "watch where you're going a$$." or something along those lines.

In return I say "F-ck you."

You in return start walking towards me (empty handed) and say "I'm going to beat your a$$ and kill you."

In your opinion I would be in the clear to pull my gun on you. Simply cause you voiced a threat?

Depends on the rest of the situation.
What if I was twice your size?

Depending on your state laws, the threat of physical harm can justify deadly force. You better believe that if you're coming at me with a verbal threat, and I can't retreat, you'll get hit with my pepper spray from my left hand.

 

[Member 53328]

Depends on the rest of the situation.
What if I was twice your size?

Still not valid IMO.

Now if you're a male moving towards a female who is 100 pounds lighter than you. Or the individual is elderly that is a different story.

But your correct that their are a lot of other factors that come in to play.

At the end of the day if your dictated and controlled by your fear/emotion you will make a mistake and you will pay the man.

Use of deadly force is looked at through an objective lens when it comes to the courts. Not a subjective one.

 

[Member 53328]

Depending on your state laws, the threat of physical harm can justify deadly force. You better believe that if you're coming at me with a verbal threat, and I can't retreat, you'll get hit with my pepper spray from my left hand.

Yup. I got no issues running away. I will do it the first chance I get.

 

[solv3nt]

Yup. I got no issues running away. I will do it the first chance I get.

Speaking of which, it's probably time to replace my Fox spray.

 

[Member 53328]

Speaking of which, it's probably time to replace my Fox spray.

Yea currently I don't carry OC on my person but that may be changing here very soon. Probably cause I know how bad it hurts and I don't ever want that to touch my skin again. I'll ride the lightning all day over get OC'd.

I'm to the point I feel like I am almost carrying everything I used to carry on my duty belt. Haha.

 

[solv3nt]

Yea currently I don't carry OC on my person but that may be changing here very soon.

I'm to the point I feel like I am almost carrying everything I used to carry on my duty belt. Haha.

You definitely carry a lot of mags in your tightly whities

 

[Member 53328]

You definitely carry a lot of mags in your tightly whities

1 in the gun and 2 in the waistband of the good ol' undies. Haha. They are still stamped with my last name from boot camp. Needless to say I'm getting my moneys worth. Haha.

They're not white or tight anymore though.

 

[solv3nt]

1 in the gun and 2 in the waistband of the good ol' undies. Haha. They are still stamped with my last name from boot camp. Needless to say I'm getting my moneys worth. Haha.

They're not white or tight anymore though.

They drop you say?

 

[Koda]

Still not valid IMO.

Now if you're a male moving towards a female who is 100 pounds lighter than you. Or the individual is elderly that is a different story.

So if someone is twice your size you have to first try to physically fight them off before you can defend yourself with lethal force?
To recap the context here, someone threatening to beat you or kill you. What if he was build like mike tyson?

As a comparison the first guy who attacked Rittenhouse was not twice his size yet it was clearly justified use of deadly force.

 

[Koda]

Use of deadly force is looked at through an objective lens when it comes to the courts. Not a subjective one.

I always thought of it as the other way around. The "reasonable man doctrine" is very subjective to me.

 

[titsonritz]

Those days may sadly be coming to an end.

It ain't the Red Barchetta days yet, but I'll never own a new vehicle. I like Detroit steal.

 

[Member 53328]

So if someone is twice your size you have to first try to physically fight them off before you can defend yourself with lethal force?
To recap the context here, someone threatening to beat you or kill you. What if he was build like mike tyson?

As a comparison the first guy who attacked Rittenhouse was not twice his size yet it was clearly justified use of deadly force.

The guy who swung the skateboard at his head…..

Kyle also tried running away. He displayed a lot of effort to avoid a confrontation. That played a huge role in his freedom.

At the end of the day we all gotta do what's best for us. What I do in a situation may be completely different than what you do. It's on us individually to defend our actions and articulate why we did what we did.

For me personally I am going to use every tool I have before I am FORCED to pull my firearm. It's not my initial/immediate go to.

 

[Koda]

The guy who swung the skateboard at his head…..

At the end of the day we all gotta do what's best for us. What I do in a situation may be completely different than what you do. It's on us individually to defend our actions and articulate why we did what we did.

For me personally I am going to use every tool I have before I am FORCED to pull my firearm.

No, the first guy in the car lot. He had no weapons at all.

Agree on doing everything possible to not use deadly force. Some of these scenarios are complicated though.

 

[titsonritz]

No, the first guy in the car lot. He had no weapons at all.

Agree on doing everything possible to not use deadly force. Some of these scenarios are complicated though.

The racist red-headed 'chester dwarf.