Been dealing with a lot BS from Armslist

[justcuz]

Inquiring minds, for future reference, would like to know from those members claiming violation(s) some objective evidence of any SC or Federal statutory cite quantifying the constant use of 'fraudulent way' acquisition or specific rationale necessitating the notification of SC's local constabulary against the buyer?

Thanks...

 

[Kruel J]

Inquiring minds, for future reference, would like to know from those members claiming violation(s) some objective evidence of any SC or Federal statutory cite quantifying the constant use of 'fraudulent way' acquisition or specific rationale necessitating the notification of SC's local constabulary against the buyer?

Thanks...

You seem to be an attorney, you tell us.

 

[MikeInOr]

PayPal's whole business model is setup to have as many firewalls between the customers and any live person in the company as possible. (Same with ebay and many other of these types of sites). If you actually were able to talk to an actual person working for PayPal you have my awe as you are much more persistent and patient than I am (I guess $4600 I would be too)!

I can pretty well guarantee the purchasers intention is to scam you. If PayPal is not able to get there money back from the seller (If the seller transferred the money out of his PayPal account before PayPal put a hold on it the seller likely only has to close his PayPal account) I would bet PayPal will make it as difficult as possible for you to get your money back from them.

Too late now but any buyer that wants to buy all of your weapons is most likely a scam. I would never do a personal firearm sale or purchase with any private party out of state especially if initial contact is made through the internet. Three years ago I was going to buy a pistol off Armslist from out of state... it was a total scam! The seller actually wanted me to tell him why I thought it was a scam so he could better fleece the next guy.

To me is seems that the anti-gunners have made the private trade in firearms almost impossible. The last time I tried to buy a gun off Armslist from a guy 5 miles away from me we could not find a FFL in Central Oregon that would do the transfer for less than $50 transfer charge + $10 background check. $50 on top of the sellers asking price would have been more than purchasing the gun new... what is a private party buyer/seller supposed to do?

 

[justcuz]

You seem to be an attorney, you tell us.

Alas, this august member has been since the inception of the thread! Thanks...

 

[AMT]

I did not read all the posts but file a claim with ATF. First thing they'll do is visit the FFL. The FFL should have all of the guys info.

This is another reason I only do cash or postal money order, and don't do PayPal when people want me to "get into the 20th century".

I may miss out on a lot of sales but at least I don't have to lose money and items.

I hope you file paperwork and fry this person.

Sorry to hear of your loss.

 

[MikeInOr]

Inquiring minds, for future reference, would like to know from those members claiming violation(s) some objective evidence of any SC or Federal statutory cite quantifying the constant use of 'fraudulent way' acquisition or specific rationale necessitating the notification of SC's local constabulary against the buyer?

Thanks...

I had a $3500 charge for a laptop show up on my credit card. The laptop was sent to my address via UPS then rerouted to an address 100 miles away from me. I was lucky in that I noticed the charge immediately. I wanted to make sure I got my money back so I filed a local police report. A local detective gave me a call and I was able to give him the address UPS rerouted the package to in Portland (100 miles away). The detective called the Portland police who then went to the address and retrieved the package from a little old lady who was doing a favor for someone she met on the internet by receiving and forwarding the package to them. The Portland police confiscated the package. I DID get my $3500 back from my credit union who likely are the party that ended up eating the $3500. The laptop belonged to my Credit Union who I am sure never claimed it even though I gave them a thorough report and a copy of the police report. The Portland police had a REALLY nice laptop to sell in their property sale... at least the crook didn't end up with it!

The little old lady?... the Portland police thought she was being taken advantage of and took no action against her. (I would have fried her if I were the cops).

I believe the charge in these type cases is "Wire Fraud" and it is a Federal charge... but I am no lawyer.

 

[justcuz]

File a claim with ATF ? or I believe...?

Sorry, please, let's review a few things...
1. The seller [OP] contracted with the buyer to sell 4 firearms.
2. The buyer agreed to exchange funds through paypal with seller - seller [OP] received $$$$!
3. The seller [OP] coordinated with SC FFL who received seller's firearms and [speculation here] FFL followed Federal mandates of completion of ATF Form 4473 and if buyer had SC Concealed Permit - transfer complete; or if buyer didn't have a SC Concealed Permit, then FFL accomplished requisit FBI NICS' background check!

Contractual agreement to sell, buy, and TRANSFER completed! So seller [OP] received their $$$ for their property and buyer received their property for the money per the agreed upon contractual agreement.

As previously stated, where is the cited Federal/State violation in this situation?

That stated, a common Internet scam consists of perpetrators offering goods or services that they do not intend to deliver. For example, a person interested in buying auto parts for a Toyota truck may complete an online transaction using a credit card; if the parts are never shipped... then and only then do you have "INTENT" by the seller to defraud! As best as we can ascertain in this situation seller delivered and received just compensation and the buyer paid and received their property.

 

[Kruel J]

File a claim with ATF ? or I believe...?

Sorry, please, let's review a few things...
1. The seller [OP] contracted with the buyer to sell 4 firearms.
2. The buyer agreed to exchange funds through paypal with seller - seller [OP] received $$$$!
3. The seller [OP] coordinated with SC FFL who received seller's firearms and [speculation here] FFL followed Federal mandates of completion of ATF Form 4473 and if buyer had SC Concealed Permit - transfer complete; or if buyer didn't have a SC Concealed Permit, then FFL accomplished requisit FBI NICS' background check!

Contractual agreement to sell, buy, and TRANSFER completed! So seller [OP] received their $$$ for their property and buyer received their property for the money per the agreed upon contractual agreement.

As previously stated, where is the cited Federal/State violation in this situation?

That stated, a common Internet scam consists of perpetrators offering goods or services that they do not intend to deliver. For example, a person interested in buying auto parts for a Toyota truck may complete an online transaction using a credit card; if the parts are never shipped... then and only then do you have "INTENT" by the seller to defraud! As best as we can ascertain in this situation seller delivered and received just compensation and the buyer paid and received their property.

You left out the part where the buyer then reported to Paypal that the goods were never received, AFTER he did the transfers and took possession of them.

What is your point, besides spouting off legal jargon that probably none of us here are smart enough to decipher? Just to make yourself look educated and better than everyone? The OP ALMOST got scammed out of nearly FIVE GRAND in a transaction regarding firearms. If it hadn't gone his way, should he have just sat on his hands and done nothing to try and at LEAST put the scammer on local LEO/ATF's radar?

Come on. You're arguing here is just silly and done for the sake of just that.

 

[Camelfilter]

You left out the part where the buyer then reported to Paypal that the goods were never received, AFTER he did the transfers and took possession of them.

What is your point, besides spouting off legal jargon that probably none of us here are smart enough to decipher? Just to make yourself look educated and better than everyone? The OP ALMOST got scammed out of nearly FIVE GRAND in a transaction regarding firearms. If it hadn't gone his way, should he have just sat on his hands and done nothing to try and at LEAST put the scammer on local LEO/ATF's radar?

Come on. You're arguing here is just silly and done for the sake of just that.

Had to "show ignored content" to see what you were writing about.

Some folks, what can you do?

Oh...back to ignore content.

 

[justcuz]

Sorry, that activity was perpetrated by the buyer after the initial sell/buy contact and such was done, As such it is a separate activity and as mentioned this action is afforded to all citizens who complete transactions by credit/debit/paypal/etc.

As for arguing for the sake of arguing, KruelJ, not in a million years! This site, as the premiere firearm forum in the western states and attaining greater status across the nation daily, should afford it's forum members and non-member readers the proper and correct information to the extent possible, cited if possible, instead of having members/readers having to endure falsehoods, innuendo, bravado, gossip, fake information, and unsubstantiated BS to rely on in their dealings with their life's encounters.

If so & so member rattled off incorrect specs of a firearm or practice you are intimately familar with, would it go unchallenged, even if you weren't a staff member? Would you challenge the presentor of the information so you could see if the member's data was correct, or they stumbled on test study which revealed different characteristics/specifications you weren't aware of, or would you just say 'your point' or ya, ya, sure your full of it!

 

[Camelfilter]

And a huge "good on yah" @FireArm for getting PayPal to do there job!

That whole situation blows!

That buyer deserves to get his due, which IMO includes being a prohibited person. Farkin dirtbag.

 

[FireArm]

They(PP) dont want to help anyone by guns, gun parts, even mags, was one thing the rep said.
Better believe if I dont get the fees reversed I will be contacting the ATF here and in SC, FBI, local Columbia SC police and the AG of both states and do what I need to, to either get the money or Firearms back. And a fraudulent firearms purchase and/or wire fraud would be the charges the guy would get, a fruadulent firearms purchase is a felony.
Same goes for people who buy a firearm with a credit card and then fight the charges on their purchase, its a crime. The FFL I spoke with said he actually has had to deal with that in the recent past. The ATF and FBI were involved in that case.
For the guy with all the legal beagel mumbo jumbo "I no hablo".

 

[DuneHopper]

PP, is great if everything goes well, I received a fraudulent part its been about a month why they investigate, show pics, show evidence etc. As far as firearms, never done long distance. Why ? Cause I am always reading horror stories so I just stay local.

 

[AMT]

Inquiring minds, for future reference, would like to know from those members claiming violation(s) some objective evidence of any SC or Federal statutory cite quantifying the constant use of 'fraudulent way' acquisition or specific rationale necessitating the notification of SC's local constabulary against the buyer?

Thanks...

I would guess that a false claim to PayPal to have the funds reversed (after receiving product) is the same as writing a check for something (and recieving something) then putting a stop-paymen on the check.

 

[Jonnyuma]

 

[Mygrainman]

You seem to be an attorney, you tell us.

Alas, this august member has been since the inception of the thread! Thanks...

Let me try @Kruel J ....

Please tell in terms that are understandable...
The only thing worse than a grammar nazi is a Sesquipedalian...

This is a fire arms forum... Not a political, or legal forum.
NOBODY logs on to be dazzled by your most impressive word smithing...
Put down the thesaurus and pick up an American Rifleman.

As for arguing for the sake of arguing, KruelJ, not in a million years! This site, as the premiere firearm forum in the western states and attaining greater status across the nation daily, should afford it's forum members and non-member readers the proper and correct information to the extent possible, cited if possible, instead of having members/readers having to endure falsehoods, innuendo, bravado, gossip, fake information, and unsubstantiated BS to rely on in their dealings with their life's encounters.

I call BullS#!t.....
Can you honestly say that you don't troll the threads for the opportunity to infect them? A friendly warning about possible legal repercussions would be great...but definitely not when worded in a condescending way, and full of superfluous vocabulary in an obvious attempt to assert your intellectual superiority.
Word of the day(since you're so fond of vocabulary)...
Hubris.

 

[Mygrainman]

Be honest brothers...
How many of you googled Sesquipedalian?

And yes I understand that using the word in my post is quite Sesquipedalian of me... please forgive my hypocrisy

From the Urban Dictionary:

Sesquipedalian
ses·qui·pe·da·lian
n.
A long word.

adj.
1. Given to the use of long words.
2. Long and ponderous; polysyllabic.
A sesquipedalian is Throwing long word in a sentence that is un-needed:
Gregory found traffic court a Kafkaesque experience



Sesquipedalian
A lover of words; particularly long words. These people don't merely love these words, they lust these words, they fantasize about them, they effing ADORE THEM!

The lives of Sesquipedalians are words, they live, breathe and eat words. Literally. Extreme Sesquipedalianism (or ES) is a condition whereby a patient reports excessive masturbation and intrusive sexual thoughts about words. Treatment is sparse.
Nick: Hey, I redecorated the bedroom with Predominantly last night.

Warren: You're such a sesquipedalian! I love Paradoxically so much I think i could cry.

 

[DirectDrive]

Alas, this august member has been since the inception of the thread! Thanks...

Ah, Yoda you are.

 

[Jonnyuma]

So... you're saying not to use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice?

 

[justcuz]

Mygrainman, et al., as is the case in all things expressed, the listener(s) always have the opportunity to disregard any message partially or in totality, their choice.

Please do whichever suits your mood.