Been dealing with a lot BS from Armslist

[FireArm]

posted a bunch of stuff for sale on Armslist.com
originally everything was selling and I kept posting things for sale on this site and Armslist.
Most of the stuff was selling on Armslist here locally. I have a guy interested in a MPX, 1911, mossberg500, Remington870, and a AR pistol. I was excited to sell everything to one buyer. the catch was he was located in South Carolina, I went through the standard stuff, I ate shipping, HUGE mistake. That basically made UPS a partner in my deal. this was back in July. Well I shipped everything to a very helpful FFL (Hillybilly Shooting Sports). I hesitantly accepted Paypal as the form of Payment, I had never used Paypal for anything.
So last week I get a notification that says he didnt receive the 4 packages...
I send the tracking info to Paypal and they instantly give the guy his $4600 back as I sent the items to a different address then his address on Paypal. So I call Paypal to explain that the items purchased were firearms and they had to go to an FFL by law. Im not in the wrong the tracking info shows the packages were received and I called the FFL who let me know that the guy came and picked the items up 2 months ago. So now Im dealing with Paypal so they dont charge me $4600 which is literally hell on earth. No direct line to a person, the website is no help. I literally have to call and wait on hold for hours at a time. its insane, needless to say I wont ever be using Paypal. Im supposedly now just waiting for a call back from a higher up Paypal Representative to get the issue under wraps. if paypal says I owe money, I have to report this guy to the ATF for a fraudulent firearms purchase, and thats a felony. crazy times.

So this week I thought I had a couple more firearms sold, but I got a check thats clearly fake from some company in California when the guy who wants the firearms is in Michigan. Then I get a call from the buyer and he has the heaviest African accent I have ever heard and he ends up hanging up on me. not gonna waste any more time on that one...

people are insane for money.

should I have already involved the ATF?
I work 10-12hrs 5days a week and dont have time for this crap.

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[Dirt Sample]

I get out of state requests everytime I put stuff on Armslist. Even if they seem legit, (most are obviously scams), I just delete them or reply with sorry, no shipping. I hear too many stories like yours to take a chance. They don't call it Scamslist for nothing. Sorry for what you are going through, and I hope it works out for you.

 

[cooper]

Thats too much for one guys shoulders. KUDOS FOR INPUT ASSIST

bubblegum THAT GUY...BURN HIM AND ANYONE WHO STANDS IN WAY TO THE WIND. WHAT A PIECE OF " SORRY MODDY " TRASH.. I'm going to gas up the fire knows that you have family all that kind of stuff and he's just burning you. Yuck I'll reread the thread but plane tickets sometimes are good. This piece of trash isn't going to have a Epiphany here. Send him list of flights headed to his area. I hate this kind of crap. Hopefully the ATF can do something.
Give the Nigerian guy this guy's PayPal info. Was Hillbilly helpers helpful to you at all when you discuss this matter with him? Not much he could do but it's always nice to have another person to Loop same story. Isn't there a limit of time here for refunds on PayPal? Why the f*** PayPal would so I can give him back to cash on a gundeals anyway baffles me. Normally what it just froze up both you guys accounts. I would start keeping a log of what I've been doing and who I talk to.
You're not alone on this either brother. I've kept myself limited to FFL when do we need Firearms buying and getting and stuff online for this very purpose. You send the buyer the cash and you provide them with an FFL to their FFL this is exactly what I've been fearing. You know I'm halfway joking about the plane ticket but I'm not the other half. That's a chit man that's the blood that right there someday Maybe but someday. My exposure is only been limited to ammunition purchases but still Pretty whiskey. I would definitely contact my bank I don't think I would include the part about firearms I would just put it as merchandise. Let them know that there is a really ugly dispute do your best to convince him that you're on this side of good. Your bank should be able to hold that $4,600 until everybody's done talking. This isn't of course if PayPal decides to take action against your banking for the amount. They've got the okay from you and the agreement they'll get Court paper tell your bank it's theirs and but it's in their hands now and good luck getting it back. This could give you a buffer or at least it wouldn't be leaving the bank would be your knee on your second Shield.
I am not too busy need a third?

 

[FireArm]

I get out of state requests everytime I put stuff on Armslist. Even if they seem legit, (most are obviously scams), I just delete them or reply with sorry, no shipping. I hear too many stories like yours to take a chance. They don't call it Scamslist for nothing. Sorry for what you are going through, and I hope it works out for you.

in this stagnant market I had to use other websites to sell my firearms for a down payment on a new home for my family, I know I did everything right and it will pan out on my end but in the mean time im definitely stressed out. Another trip to your town would help, a nice long ride on the dunes sure does clear ones mind.

 

[GOG]

I usually only buy, sell or trade here or else I trade with a local fun store. It just saves a bunch of agitation and I'm all about keeping my mellow unharshed.

@FireArm I wish you well. The guy is scum.

 

[DirectDrive]

posted a bunch of stuff for sale on Armslist.com
originally everything was selling and I kept posting things for sale on this site and Armslist.
Most of the stuff was selling on Armslist here locally. I have a guy interested in a MPX, 1911, mossberg500, Remington870, and a AR pistol. I was excited to sell everything to one buyer. the catch was he was located in South Carolina, I went through the standard stuff, I ate shipping, HUGE mistake. That basically made UPS a partner in my deal. this was back in July. Well I shipped everything to a very helpful FFL (Hillybilly Shooting Sports). I hesitantly accepted Paypal as the form of Payment, I had never used Paypal for anything.
So late week I get a notification that the says he did receive the 4 packages...
I send the tracking info to Paypal and they instantly give the guy his $4600 back as I sent the items to a different address then his address on Paypal. So I call Paypal to explain that the items purchased were firearms and they had to go to an FFL by law. Im not in the wrong the tracking info shows the packages were received and I called the FFL who let me know that the guy came and picked the items up 2 months ago. So now Im dealing with Paypal so they dont charge me $4600 which is literally hell on earth. No direct line to a person, the website is no help. I literally have to call and wait on hold for hours at a time. its insane, needless to say I wont ever be using Paypal. Im supposedly now just waiting for a call back from a higher up Paypal Representative to get the issue under wraps. if paypal says I owe money, I have to report this guy to the ATF for a fraudulent firearms purchase, and thats a felony. crazy times.

So this week I thought I had a couple more firearms sold, but I got a check thats clearly fake from some company in California when the guy who wants the firearms is in Michigan. Then I get a call from the buyer and he has the heaviest African accent I have ever heard and he ends up hanging up on me. not gonna waste any more time on that one...

people are insane for money.

should I have already involved the ATF?
I work 10-12hrs 5days a week and dont have time for this crap.

I don't think PayPal does over the table firearms transactions.
So you have a mess. Hopefully the FFL has not released the firearms to the buyer ?
Somehow the buyer needs to cancel the PayPal service and send you a USPS money order for the amount of the sale.
You might think about helping the buyer with any PayPal fees if the PayPal transaction was your idea.

The way some people get around the PayPal firearms policy is to have the buyer send you a gift through PayPal in the amount of the sale.
That way PayPal isn't holding any funds or tracking any merchandise.

You will want to plead ignorance in this if the opportunity presents.
It might be beneficial to your cause.

 

[FireArm]

Thats too much for one guys shoulders. KUDOS FOR INPUT ASSIST

bubblegum THAT GUY...BURN HIM AND ANYONE WHO STANDS IN WAY TO THE WIND. WHAT A PIECE OF " SORRY MODDY " TRASH.. I'm going to gas up the fire knows that you have family all that kind of stuff and he's just burning you. Yuck I'll reread the thread but plane tickets sometimes are good. This piece of trash isn't going to have a Epiphany here. Send him list of flights headed to his area. I hate this kind of crap. Hopefully the ATF can do something.
Give the Nigerian guy this guy's PayPal info. Was Hillbilly helpers helpful to you at all when you discuss this matter with him? Not much he could do but it's always nice to have another person to Loop same story. Isn't there a limit of time here for refunds on PayPal? Why the f*** PayPal would so I can give him back to cash on a gundeals anyway baffles me. Normally what it just froze up both you guys accounts. I would start keeping a log of what I've been doing and who I talk to.
You're not alone on this either brother. I've kept myself limited to FFL when do we need Firearms buying and getting and stuff online for this very purpose. You send the buyer the cash and you provide them with an FFL to their FFL this is exactly what I've been fearing. You know I'm halfway joking about the plane ticket but I'm not the other half. That's a chit man that's the blood that right there someday Maybe but someday. My exposure is only been limited to ammunition purchases but still Pretty whiskey. I would definitely contact my bank I don't think I would include the part about firearms I would just put it as merchandise. Let them know that there is a really ugly dispute do your best to convince him that you're on this side of good. Your bank should be able to hold that $4,600 until everybody's done talking. This isn't of course if PayPal decides to take action against your banking for the amount. They've got the okay from you and the agreement they'll get Court paper tell your bank it's theirs and but it's in their hands now and good luck getting it back. This could give you a buffer or at least it wouldn't be leaving the bank would be your knee on your second Shield.
I am not too busy need a third?

Ya, a younger me would have already made the drive to SC. its only a 3 day drive. I will do what I can the legal way and hope the system has my back as I really dont want to sink to the guys level.

 

[FireArm]

I don't think PayPal does over the table firearms transactions.
So you have a mess. Hopefully the FFL has not released the firearms to the buyer ?
Somehow the buyer needs to cancel the PayPal service and send you a USPS money order for the amount of the sale.
You might think about helping the buyer with any PayPal fees if the PayPal transaction was your idea.

The way some people get around the PayPal firearms policy is to have the buyer send you a gift through PayPal in the amount of the sale.
That way PayPal isn't holding any funds or tracking any merchandise.

the transaction happened in JULY its been two months since I heard from the guy. last I heard he had everything and was happy. hes totally trying to scam Paypal/ME. But Paypal did put a hold on returning the funds to him but at the same time my Paypal account says i owe $4600 to them... which really pisses me off. I pay my bills. but i will go to court over this if need be.

 

[jim97701]

You are in a real screwed up mess with this. Paypal doesn't allow firearm transactions using their services and it's clearly stated as such in their rules of service. I'm really not sure how they will handle this for you?. Your best bet might be to get in touch with the buyer and try to arrange another form of payment. If he is an honest person he shouldn't have a problem with that. If he is a jerk then I think the ATF is your next option and he deserves the felony charges and all that comes with being dishonest. Best of luck clearing this up, I feel for you DAMN. Please let us know how this all pans out for you.

PayPal Help Center Article

 

[DirectDrive]

the transaction happened in JULY its been two months since I heard from the guy. last I heard he had everything and was happy. hes totally trying to scam Paypal/ME. But Paypal did put a hold on returning the funds to him but at the same time my Paypal account says i owe $4600 to them... which really pisses me off. I pay my bills. but i will go to court over this if need be.

OK, so he's paid the money and has the guns ?
PayPal has the buyer's money and wants more from you....I don't get that part.
I don't think he's got any further obligations, if I understand this.
He paid and he received the goods.
Who's idea was the PayPal thing anyway ?

Maybe try contacting the Attorney General's Office in the buyer's home state ?
If PayPal has your money maybe they can "convince" PayPal to release your funds.

 

[FireArm]

You are in a real screwed up mess with this. Paypal doesn't allow firearm transactions using their services and it's clearly stated as such in their rules of service. I'm really not sure how they will handle this for you?. Your best bet might be to get in touch with the buyer and try to arrange another form of payment. If he is an honest person he shouldn't have a problem with that. If he is a jerk then I think the ATF is your next option and he deserves the felony charges and all that comes with being dishonest. Best of luck clearing this up, I feel for you DAMN. Please let us know how this all pans out for you.

PayPal Help Center Article

first time using paypal and last. they make it sound like they arent gonna give him the funds back, but they are also still holding it against me, so I will see what happens. Ive waited on hold for 6hrs at 2 hrs a time, its nuts to just talk to a paypal rep.

 

[FireArm]

OK, so he's paid the money and has the guns ?
PayPal has the buyer's money and wants more from you....I don't get that part.
I don't think he's got any further obligations, if I understand this.
He paid and he received the goods.
Who's idea was the PayPal thing anyway ?

Maybe try contacting the Attorney General's Office in the buyer's home state ?
If PayPal has your money maybe they can "convince" PayPal to release your funds.

I got paid back in July and he got his guns shortly there after, hes attempting to use Paypal to get his money back stating he never received the firearms. But the FFL is on my side as far as sharing the info he needs to share so no one gets ripped off.

 

[jim97701]

I don't understand how they say you owe them money?. You are the one that is out the merchandise and the payment for it! it makes no sense.

 

[DirectDrive]

first time using paypal and last. they make it sound like they arent gonna give him the funds back, but they are also still holding it against me, so I will see what happens. Ive waited on hold for 6hrs at 2 hrs a time, its nuts to just talk to a paypal rep.

Try the Attorney General (buyer's home state) idea.
If they can't help you, they might be able to point you in the right direction.
If anything, maybe they can give you PayPal contact info that is higher up the food chain than where you've been.

I don't fault PayPal.
They are standing on their d__cks because the PayPal people involved thus far don't know what to do about this firearms transaction that violates their company policy.

 

[jim97701]

I got paid back in July and he got his guns shortly there after, hes attempting to use Paypal to get his money back stating he never received the firearms. But the FFL is on my side as far as sharing the info he needs to share so no one gets ripped off.

Now that's a whole new deal, The FFL would have record of him picking up the guns and so his "I didn't get them" crap should be easy to prove wrong. I would tell Paypal to pound sand.

 

[DirectDrive]

I got paid back in July and he got his guns shortly there after, hes attempting to use Paypal to get his money back stating he never received the firearms. But the FFL is on my side as far as sharing the info he needs to share so no one gets ripped off.

Ah, the rest of the story.
Attorney General for that.

Get documentation from the receiving FFL ASAP showing the transaction and serial numbers.

 

[American123]

Buyer is attempting to fraud, buyer had to initiate a claim saying he didn't get his items in order for this to take place (which clearly sounds like he did).

Avoid using paypal for anything Gun related, they aren't gun friendly. Out of state transactions are tough, but this is why many sellers require payment in advance of shipping items. I only buy from gunbroker or locally and I have only ever sold locally. Too much hassle dealing with shipping and scummy people.

 

[cigars]

I got paid back in July and he got his guns shortly there after, hes attempting to use Paypal to get his money back stating he never received the firearms. But the FFL is on my side as far as sharing the info he needs to share so no one gets ripped off.

If the FFL over there turned over the guns to the guy, then the guy screwed you over, contact the local sheriffs office on his end. Wire fraud comes to mind. With any luck the DA will get involved.

 

[DirectDrive]

If the FFL over there turned over the guns to the guy, then the guy screwed you over, contact the local sheriffs office on his end. Wire fraud comes to mind. With any luck the DA will get involved.

Good idea, the Sheriff's Office would be another must call for the seller.

 

[justcuz]

Might an observer point out you are discussing a contractual issue ONLY as no Federal nor State firearm statutes have been broken as transfer(s) were appropriately handled per statutory mandates, on a public forum which if it goes to judicial oversight for resolution the OP you has publically stated,

1. OP used a money service which has explicit policies against using their services to sell firearms - to conduct and transact a firearm sale.

2. OP has unequivocally stated they had been paid, transferee received their product.

I got paid back in July and he got his guns shortly there after, hes attempting to use Paypal to get his money back stating he never received the firearms. But the FFL is on my side as far as sharing the info he needs to share so no one gets ripped off.

Since the situation is strictly a civil contractual issue, pray tell, what on earth would you expect the ATF, the distant end Sheriff/LE or DA to do? Especially the OP has stated publically he was paid, customer received what they paid for, all done above board IAW established Fed/State mandates!

It is no different than you, as a customer buying something from a merchant using credit/debit card to pay and then going to your financial institution where you challenge the legitimacy of the charges.

Sorry, OP, while seeking advice here, this observer recommends to find a contact attorney and prepare to fight PayPal's corporate legal system.